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This topic contains 17 replies, has 7 voices, and was last updated by  alanodea 12 years, 1 month ago.

  • Author
    Posts
  • #4751

    catbert
    Participant

    Hi all,

    I’ve just started a PhD in the wee north on Adaptive Digital Games :shock: , investigating the how, why and whether or not to bother of player profiling and modeling for dynamic adaptive gameplay.

    A key hot button topic here is adaptivity in games – there has always been lots of controversy over whether games should adapt to players, or just be the same* experience every time.

    Anybody care to give their two cents on whether games should be adaptive?

    *Roughly – by this I mean state-driven and scripted.

  • #26985

    peter_b
    Participant

    yeah it should be. Theres plenty of articles\papers written which highlight the downfalls of a game which isnt adaptive..

  • #26986

    catbert
    Participant

    Care to comment on why it should be adaptive?

    Me, I’m just as interested in the mechanics behind how to do it – like the psychology of play, brain function, cognitive science – I’m not the biggest gamer in the world. Bought about three games, ever (though that’s just cos I’m an international man of mystery, I have too much excitement).

    But I’d like to hear the punters view, from the punters who are also the developers…

  • #26987

    omen
    Participant

    Depends on what you mean by adaptive, what sort of game is it, is the effort involved versus the reward.

  • #26988

    catbert
    Participant

    Thats a developers concern – the effort is in testing and verifying the non-deterministic code that might be necessary, if the adaptivity is to be more complex than plain auto-dynamic difficulty (which is just measuring stats about the player to influence stats in the game, like number of enemies or their individual accuracy).
    The reward is in replayability, beyond simply playing again to improve your kills/deaths ratio, or find all the hidden jewels, etc.

    Its like, how many times do you watch the average movie? And if its a 12 hour experience (like the Godfathers), how many times then? A game is an interactive experience, so it doesnt need to be limited in this way, but it often is.
    Thats only applicable to highly narrative games, but you catch my drift…

  • #26989

    omen
    Participant

    Have to say, you lost me a bit there…

    Some genre’s lend themselves to adaptivity more-so than others. Perhaps a footy game or a strategy would learn the way you attack, and defend certain areas better. A FPS might learn how to attack you better. But is it really worth-while for a ai car to learn how you drive around a track, will it really add that much? Will it add anything to a platform game?? Also, will it add to the fun value, or will it simply make the game harder to complete and you simply have to try new approaches to situations. Sure, this makes you think more but the balance of keeping the game entertaining and making you work harder is a tough balance to keep.
    Developer concerns are pretty important as a developer trying to do it, but having to bodge the thing due to time constraints will probably get it wrong.
    There is also the issue of difficulty levels within games. If you have a difficulty level, why make it adaptive? Surely saying you want it to be hard means hard. I don’t want it to adapt to be easy if I can’t handle it. Having both systems in games is something that doesn’t make sense to me. i bring this up as publishers often want this feature.

  • #27214

    Brother GriMM
    Participant

    42 the answer to everything is always 42…

  • #27251

    obscure
    Participant

    There are potential problems with adaptive game play in that you are effectively changing the rules as you go along. You are also mainataining a steep learning curve because, not only is new stuff introduced, but old stuff you mastered keeps changing.

    I think that open gameplay (a simulation/environment where the player can use the physical laws of the particular game to solve problems in a number of ways) is a much better way to generate replayability.

  • #27256

    alanodea
    Participant
  • #27264

    peter_b
    Participant

    impressive creditals alan. sounds like you’ve posted your c.v. :)

    as for recruiting people from the industry to share their business models i suspect you’ll probably struggle. i doubt many companies will want to discuss their business models, where their competitors can freely read about them in your thesis. but best of luck with that.

  • #27266

    alanodea
    Participant

    Yes I agree.

    I have been working hard over hear in the UK going up and down the country recruiting individuals and companies to help in the research. I have a good few people already but like all quantitative based research not many people in any industry want to fill our surveys etc.

    Alan

  • #27268

    peter_b
    Participant

    good good. im over in the uk myself at sega in solihull. Its a great place.

    i’lll pass on your details tomorrow and see if anyone wants to help you out with filling the survey. Sega’s business model is actually pretty simple at the mo. Buy up everyone who’ll make you money. i.e. Creative Assembly :)

  • #27271

    alanodea
    Participant

    That would be excellent. The more industry people on board the better.

    What are you up to at Saga?

    Alan

  • #27274

    peter_b
    Participant

    No problem.

    I work as a programmer in core technology at the driving studio developing all the bits and bobs of code which the games teams use (graphics\sound\networking\input\physics\tools etc).

  • #24543

    kyotokid
    Keymaster

    My name is Alan O’Dea….

    I have been a IGDA student member for the last 4 years and attend the IGDA UK North West chapter meetings.
    [/quote:885bfd7103]

    The Liverpool or the Manchester IGDA meetings?

    I was at the Liverpool one last week, mmm free booze tastes even sweeter.

  • #25858

    alanodea
    Participant

    Yes I was at the Liverpool one last Wednesday. I was the guy giving out all the handouts.

    Alan

  • #27304

    kyotokid
    Keymaster

    D’oh missed those handouts. I near went over 4 pints and that would not have been good…damn early mornings ;)

    I came with the David from Evolution, he was one of the lads on the ‘door’

  • #27307

    alanodea
    Participant

    No worry I was talking to Matt Southern at the IGDA meeting the week before in Manchester. I wasnt expecting to much reading of handouts at a games related social event fuled primarily by free beer to be fair.

    Al

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