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This topic contains 26 replies, has 9 voices, and was last updated by  philippe_j 12 years, 2 months ago.

  • Author
    Posts
  • #4662

    omen
    Participant

    Just saw this up in the Recent Updates section.
    Since when has Ireland started doing UK style uni courses. When did Honours Degrees start?? A cert was 2 years, a diploma 3 years and a degree was 4 years….when did it change to a 3 year degree and a honour degree for 4 ??

  • #26137

    Skyclad
    Participant

    Dunno. I’m just a cut n’ paste monkey :)

  • #26138

    omen
    Participant

    We know Dave, we know…

  • #26139

    erckle
    Participant

    in NUIG the science degree’s work like that (afaik), and has done so for some time

  • #26140

    lk_
    Participant

    They started coming in 2 years ago I think.

  • #26144

    philippe_j
    Participant

    I believe it’s something to do with “aligning” with the rest of Europe.
    One of those red tape thing you don’t really take into consideration until you go abroad and you are told that your shiny BSc is not worth what you thought…

  • #26147

    lk_
    Participant

    Bloody foreigners… *waves fist at the rest of Europe*

  • #26148

    peter_b
    Participant

    probably a good way. at least people have a kind of safety net. get your pass in 3 yrs then try for the honours if you fail at least you have a pass.while with all or nothing 4 years. its just that. feck all at the end if you belly up in the exams ;)

  • #26149

    omen
    Participant

    Thats just stupid.
    Ireland’s Leaving Cert isn’t the same as England’s A-Levels isn’t the same as Scotland’s Highers isn’t the same as anyone elses…
    *sigh*

  • #26150

    lk_
    Participant

    I really wish more weight would be given to do work done throughout the year…..

    If a diploma is now a degree, and a degree an Honours Degree does that make a certificate a diploma…or is it something else all together. Bah whatever you call it, it still isnt worth diddly.

  • #26154

    omen
    Participant

    What if you’re in a uni that a degree is still a 4 year thing. Looking at 2 people’s cv’s, one’s got a degree and one’s got a honours degree, how are you supposed to know that they’re exactly the same. Ludicrous I tell you!

  • #26155

    Ronny
    Participant

    Thats just stupid.
    Ireland’s Leaving Cert isn’t the same as England’s A-Levels isn’t the same as Scotland’s Highers isn’t the same as anyone elses…
    *sigh*[/quote:9b72f234c2]
    Not yet, but we’re moving closer to a scenario where we will all be using a similar system. Look at the International Baccalaureate. It’s already in use in many countries across Europe and even Wales has adopted a similar model with the Welsh Baccalaureate.

    With increased criticism of the A Levels, thanks to slackers taking joke subjects, the government will come under increasing pressure to reform secondary education. Hell, already some schools have taken up the Int Bac.

    We’re going to be seeing education in Europe come closer together over the next decade or so. I don’t think that’s such a bad thing. Take Ireland for an example. If a student from Northern Ireland wants to go to university down south, then he’ll have to hope that the CAO will have sufficient understanding of the A Levels and treat him on a fair basis. Of course this is rarely the course. Same thing vice versa. It’s difficult to compare the A Level system with that of the Leaving Cert.

  • #26161

    peter_b
    Participant

    What if you’re in a uni that a degree is still a 4 year thing. Looking at 2 people’s cv’s, one’s got a degree and one’s got a honours degree, how are you supposed to know that they’re exactly the same. Ludicrous I tell you![/quote:86df750d20]

    hons degree i thought was when you graduated with a grade of 1.1 or 2.1 anything else was a pass\ordinary degree.

    Biggest joke i find is that a finance degree in u.c.c is a bsc degree (probably the same for more courses). Apparently because a college gets more money the more bsc course they have running.. feck sake..

  • #26162

    omen
    Participant

    hons degree i thought was when you graduated with a grade of 1.1 or 2.1 anything else was a pass\ordinary degree. [/quote:52b0dcf531]
    Thats what I thought when I heard of it first too.

    Biggest joke i find is that a finance degree in u.c.c is a bsc degree[/quote:52b0dcf531]
    Computer Science in TCD is/was a BA.

  • #26163

    philippe_j
    Participant

    I agree that a bit of unification isn’t a bad thing, in the long run.
    Personally, I still don’t understand the point of the system you have in Ireland. It’s a bit, I dunno, messy.
    So I don’t like Maths, so I can take a normal level Maths exam, but if I like it, I can do a honours? Then a bit of Art, and ooh, I dunno, what the dish of the day?

    I think the way it’s set up at the moment, it’s really hard to get a good feeling for the qualifications of a given Leaving Cert student. Cos essentially, the Leaving Cert represents whatever that particular student wants it to be.
    It’s great because it gives the students a choice. But it’s bad because (from what I have seen in the IT) it doesn’t really seem to guarantee anything.

    At least in France, when somebody tell you they come from a Scientific/Literary/Business Baccalaureat, you know exactly what you are getting. And just because a given school “demands” a certain type of Bac, didn’t actually mean I couldn’t enter the given school, just that I had to prove myself to them a bit harder (Fine Arts school usually ask that you have a Literary Bac, but I still got in with my Scientific one).

    I suppose it’s one of those things… like class based RPGs vs skill based ones… :lol:

  • #26165

    peter_b
    Participant

    I agree that a bit of unification isn’t a bad thing, in the long run.
    Personally, I still don’t understand the point of the system you have in Ireland. It’s a bit, I dunno, messy.
    So I don’t like Maths, so I can take a normal level Maths exam, but if I like it, I can do a honours? Then a bit of Art, and ooh, I dunno, what the dish of the day?

    I think the way it’s set up at the moment, it’s really hard to get a good feeling for the qualifications of a given Leaving Cert student. Cos essentially, the Leaving Cert represents whatever that particular student wants it to be.
    It’s great because it gives the students a choice. But it’s bad because (from what I have seen in the IT) it doesn’t really seem to guarantee anything.

    At least in France, when somebody tell you they come from a Scientific/Literary/Business Baccalaureat, you know exactly what you are getting.[/quote:7d40febf45]

    majority of people are going onto 3rd level education so the leaving cert doesnt mean a toss, once they get their degree\diploma\cert. Only thing its used for is getting into 3rd level education. if your applying for a job straight after the leaving, chances are you employer doesnt care what subjects you did only that you did the leaving cert.

  • #26167

    Ronny
    Participant

    At least in France, when somebody tell you they come from a Scientific/Literary/Business Baccalaureat, you know exactly what you are getting. And just because a given school “demands” a certain type of Bac, didn’t actually mean I couldn’t enter the given school, just that I had to prove myself to them a bit harder (Fine Arts school usually ask that you have a Literary Bac, but I still got in with my Scientific one).
    [/quote:f4698b5c68]
    Indeed, Philippe. My girlfriend was able to get into a languages degree (English, German, Italian, Greek) after she did a scientific bac. The system in France is brutal though, I’ve seen the amount of work you have to do for your Bac! :shock:

  • #26168

    philippe_j
    Participant

    Well, the point I am trying to make isn’t that it’s a better system. It’s just that the way it’s done, it prevents a lot of people going into 3rd level education where they just don’t have the level required. By knowing which Baccalaureat they have done, you can quickly tell whether or not they’ll have the minimum level needed to start.
    If they don’t have the required level officially, but somehow do have it in practice (like me entering the Fine Arts, or say, a guy who taught himself programming but doesnt have the Leaving Cert), just let them know they might be in for a ride, and see what happens.

    The way it is now, you just need a certain amount of points, which given the wide range of subjects you can choose from (from what I understand), means absolutely fuck all… (like, if you have 300 points and have done Maths, YOU CAN JOIN!)

    So anyway, I guess what I am saying is, they are trying to unify the level, but honestly, I think they are taking this beast by the wrong end.

    Ah well

    Ronny: yep, “brutal” is how I see it, myself. Some other people say elitist, which is true in practice, but not in spirit. I dunno. I am pretty happy I went through it and survived, cos now I can spend my time sniggering at people finding the level here “mental!” :lol:

  • #26172

    omen
    Participant

    I disagree phillippe. Having say, 300 point plus maths means you have the motivation to put enough work into subjects, which you may not have had an awful lot of choice in what you actually picked ( i know i couldn’t do the 7 subjects I wanted to ). The fact you are applying for a certain course means you have an interest in learning about it and the points just show your willingness to work and learn. Look at computing, the only school subject that relates in any way is maths and mabe physics and thats compulsary, so how does your subject choice show your suitability ??

    The only way to fix that is to basically choose your career at an earlier age and specialise earlier with a more diverse range of subjects which I think is a really bad idea.

  • #26180

    lk_
    Participant

    Maybe Futurama has something and we should be assigned a job based on our DNA :lol:

  • #26184

    Skyclad
    Participant

    But as we know, the major corporations are beginning to decide not to discriminate based on genetic makeup

  • #26211

    UsagiYojimbo
    Participant

    LOL there nice one

  • #26257

    hugh
    Participant

    Just saw this up in the Recent Updates section.
    Since when has Ireland started doing UK style uni courses. When did Honours Degrees start?? A cert was 2 years, a diploma 3 years and a degree was 4 years….when did it change to a 3 year degree and a honour degree for 4 ??[/quote:33c82ec8bb]

    I havent really been paying attention to what’s going on in the universities but the Institutes of Technology have all recently switched to this system.

    2 years – higher certificate
    3 years – ordinary degree
    4 years – honours degree

    Whereas it used to be:

    2 years – certificate
    3 years – diploma
    4 years – degree

    It is mainly to bring us in line with European education practice to facilitate transfer of students between institutions, credit transfer, common easily understood qualifications framework and so on. In practice is really just nomenclature.

  • #26261

    Skyclad
    Participant

    Aye. There is a huge difference in the perceived different between a degree and a diploma, even if it is only naming I would have thought.

    Dave

  • #26265

    philippe_j
    Participant

    My experience was that the Degree was much more theoretical than the Diploma. Whereas in Dip we were learning SQL and C++, suddenly in BSc we were learning the concepts behind designing databases in general, database languages, and so on. Same with the programming.
    Very abstract stuff. And certainly a very real change in gears, so to speak.

  • #26270

    lk_
    Participant

    Are you not doing an MSc….

  • #26278

    philippe_j
    Participant

    Me? Oh yeah, I am. I think
    :lol:

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