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September 8, 2005 at 9:54 am #4539
When is there going to be an election for roles within IGDA Ireland?
With any organised body assuming some sort of voice for the people, the people of course should get a chance to vote for those who they want to represent their area.
It would be great to know how IGDA Ireland are going to offer this choice.
I believe that the initial IGDA group was pretty much self-elected from the few people who were here at the forming of gd.ie, which was at the time a correct thing to do ( with only a small number of relevant people, it was necessary to get something started ). This group have done a great job, and deserve many pats on the back.
With a tide of new people who either a) weren’t aware of gd.ie at the time and who were developing games, or b) have only started developing games since it was set up, it seems only fair to allow these individuals to both have a choice to choose their representatives, and also to apply for a post themselves.
Having an election every year or so would also help in aleviating the issues involved where people get too comfortable wearing the laurels, and aren’t as effective as they could be ( think competition ).
If the same group of people get elected, then this helps them feel confident that they are representing us, the Irish game developers, and are not out of touch with who they represent.
September 8, 2005 at 10:02 am #24739
This has certainly been discussed alright as we are looking at the best way of setting up the Ireland chapter so we can also raise money to help organise events. Part of any legal structure, even a club/society, would have to be membership and annual elections.
Actually over the past year though certain IGDA committe members have had to stand down due to work and family committments and others have been invited on at the moment the committee just tries to cover all sectors of the industry and as wide a geographical area as possible, including NI. There are also two academic members.
I suspect as we near the second birthday of the chapter – in Jan 07 – we are going to have to have sorted out the structure.
Another interesting thing of course is that many people on gd.ie etc. are not actually paid up members of the IGDA. If this was done formally only paid up members would be able to vote.
just some thoughts…from one of the academic members of the committee
September 8, 2005 at 12:10 pm #24747
some interesting thoughts there, Mal
Some of which Aphra has already addressed. I’ll post more on this later this evening when I’ve more time
September 8, 2005 at 6:26 pm #24780
I’d vote ofcourse but I’d need to hear plans about what people envision for IGDA.ie.
I’ll like to see more spreading the word on sites such as thechaosengine, to get some of the Irish living abroad to the boards…
Another interesting thing of course is that many people on gd.ie etc. are not actually paid up members of the IGDA.[/quote:0d7d370c9e]
Guess I better cough up some cash so :p
September 8, 2005 at 7:03 pm #24784
September 8, 2005 at 7:04 pm #24785
September 9, 2005 at 2:02 am #24790
Idora & Aphra has hit all the right points! GD.ie has been a great success for this country in bringing people togethere that want to enter or are in the games industry, we should not only join the IGDA (its ur industry after all) but more action should be done togethere as a voice of our island to the a world-wide stage that leaves no one standing for long.
Since GD.ie started, the Irish games industry in Ireland has shown great protenial with talent, skills, etc., many have got jobs through this community and for all, as myself, that would have liked to have seen Awakenings 05, it is only up to ourselves, all of us, to make it happen plus much more. We have come this far and we will not be left behind ;)
Idora, Aphra and co, keep up the great work ! And lets join in :)
September 9, 2005 at 7:54 am #24791
On the assumption that only full members cast votes, would each voter therefore = 8.33% of the electorate? Talk about representation! You’ve got it easier than Mugabe! :lol:
(Oh – I’m 8.33%, come to think of it… better bring your cheque book along :wink:)
On a more serious note (and assuming much, kindly correct me if need be), if both the electees and the electorate are to stem from the pool of full members, that’s pretty much a private club affair – social gatherings and minglings such as the Shindigs notwithstanding – and, considering the weight/role that a local IGDA chapter ‘should’ have/play in each and every jurisdiction in which it exists (e.g. gvt-lobbying activites as outlined by Idora above), 12 off- just might not seem a serious enough number to any non-industry interlocutories… Come on ppl, join up!
September 9, 2005 at 7:58 am #24792
Forgot to add –
when we looked into founding the Ireland chapter, ‘membership’ was 190 for the whole island
Total now is 447
September 9, 2005 at 9:09 am #24795
Signed up, now the 13th IGDA member in the RoI.
Member #: 20052861, reporting for booty.
September 9, 2005 at 1:11 pm #24813
Just a few quick points ( busy day! ) on general groupings, elections etc. None of these relate to the current IGDA grouping, just general thoughts on involvement with previous, failed ones.
– I totally agree with only IGDA members being able to vote in the election. If an election is coming up, and people feel strongly that they want to take part in choosing their representatives, they should also join up the IGDA.
– Votes should be “one person, one vote”, not “more votes for people who payed more for a membership”. Paying more for a membership, and considering yourself more important for that reason, is seen by some as placing yourself on a pedestal.
– While IGDA has done a great job ( and that was stated clearly ), I’ve seen too many similar groupings in Ireland, where…
Familiarity breeds contempt:
With the lack of elections, the people who were elected ( self or not ) can assume that the posting is theirs for good.
Dillusions of grandeur:
Here are a few choice phrases from someone under this dilusion…
– I was here from the start, I made all of this happen. Probably the worst dilusion of them all.
– X / Y / Z ( maybe an event, or a meeting of government reps ) wouldn’t have happened without me. Remember, this is a growing industry in Ireland… wheels were in motion anyway, regardless of input from various groups. Note: some input is crutial for speeding up the wheels, and possibly aiming them in a better direction.
Paranoia regarding the threat of elections:
This occurs where there isn’t currently an election, and there are no holdings in place where proceedings currently taking place are documented to some degree, and the reigns for that specific area can be taken over by someone equally as valid for the posting.
Having elections encourages people to document, and speak more openly, about what is going on to the community they are meant to be leading.
It also helps focus the current members, as they know they have to deliver in a certain timeframe, should they wish to continue their role.
Closed shop / old boys mentality:
This is where people on a board only invite other people that they personally want to invite into the group, rather than posting for relevant people publically, who can then lodge an interest in finding out about the post / the time required to fulfill it etc.
By not being open, it is very difficult for relevant game development related people who are newer to the field ( and quite possibly no less appropriate for the post ) to at least apply for the posting.
This would be a pretty sad, and unprofessional, thing to see happen to a group that is meant to fairly represent a creative field, so it is very positive to hear that steps are in place to implement an election.
Any other thoughts?
September 9, 2005 at 10:09 pm #24836
Ok as one of the student members of the IGDA I am aware that I would not have a vote. That doesn’t trouble me too much at the moment. However I would like to see, within the Irish chapter at least, student elected representatives from the game colleges.
Since 4 years is such a short time (in some of our cases we only have 1 or 2) to be preparing for the industry, I do think students should be as involved in the growth of the Irish chapter as we can allow without sacrificing the excellent quality of work we have already seen from our committee. If any given student feels they want greater involvement they could shell out for a full membership.
Greater student representation could become greater student participation, and the more student IGDA mebers, the more likely there is to be growth in full members as those students graduate. Or so I would think
September 10, 2005 at 4:30 pm #24842
Good point however I disagree with the idea that the only student representatives should come from the games colleges. Just because a particular computer course isn’t aimed directly at the games industry doesnt mean its gradutates don’t have a chance at breaking into the industry at some level and it also doesnt mean that its students don’t have just as much knowledge and expertise in programming and other relevant areasa as those in game development orientated courses…
September 10, 2005 at 5:24 pm #24843
I agree with you, to a point. But I don’t think a college warrants having a representative with the IGDA unless the college is concerened with games. By all means get members from those courses, I never meant to imply you shouldn’t, but representatives need to represent a body, and I don’t see a recognisable body in a college that doesn’t explicitly support games.
Solution is that if a college thinks it should be represented, at a student level, then it must demonstrate that there is a body of students, interested in working with games, studying at the college.
Even if a college doesn’t seem to directly support would be games gradutes, we could make an effort to extend our knowledge to societies within those colleges.
I don’t see how we can justify having a representative (if that position is even created) of a small group of people(maybe just one project group), having equal representation with a group the size of the carlow course for example (4 year groups x class size)
September 11, 2005 at 4:36 pm #24855
So where are the ballot boxes going to be? And is it going to be an ALL-IRELAND election or are we going to get partitioned once more?
September 12, 2005 at 6:13 pm #24885
I guess that depends on whether there is an all ireland IGDA chapter or two different IGDA chapters. At present there is only one chapter.
as for ballot boxes.. I am sure we could come up with a tele-alternative: either snail mail or e-mail.
September 12, 2005 at 7:40 pm #24886
I’ve got an even better idea, how about putting all the people who want to stand for IGDA Election in one house, and watch them on webcams!
Vote them out, based on their performance in Mario Kart!
September 13, 2005 at 7:34 am #24888
Good point however I disagree with the idea that the only student representatives should come from the games colleges. Just because a particular computer course isn’t aimed directly at the games industry doesnt mean its gradutates don’t have a chance at breaking into the industry at some level.[/quote:9ddb3932db]
Spot on! i’d say the majority of grads in the industry at present didnt do a games course. There not essential, if you know your stuff you get the job, simple as that, whether you taught yourself it or you were taught it, same end result.
July 3, 2006 at 8:36 pm #32446
heheh, this thread was from september :P
So are we gonna do the elections before my IDGA membership runs out (I am not sure I’ll renew it)
July 5, 2006 at 8:46 am #32458
Can i quickly criticise the democratic system?
the benifits are unity, because everyone has a vocie they are more likely to take part.
The drawbacks are a weak decision making process.
Which is more important to the IGDA?
making comprises on issue of leadershi can be bad. Making leadership based on a popularity contest can weaken and leadership structure.
And elected figure head is fine, if seperate tasks are then broken down and given to the most suitable person, giving them a more authoritarian control over their specific area of expertise.
How to choose the best person for a given job is harder.
Might i suggest some kind of competition.
Of course this is all just my humble opinion. Feel free to ignore me or tell me to shut up. I might just go away.
July 5, 2006 at 8:56 am #32459
Just for context, we’re not discussing FF, FG or TDs here.
There is not much to gain, if anything at all (personally), but rather a lot to give (time/experience/efforts to the group/industry).
So, a competition to ‘earn’ the right to represent/contribute :roll: … W, Hector :wink:
July 5, 2006 at 11:24 am #32463
Making leadership based on a popularity contest can weaken and leadership structure.
I would assume that each candiate would state why they think they should get the positions, what they would bring to the table, what experience they have, why they’re the best etc…
Following the way the main IDGA elections went.
Then folk would vote. So I guess the winner would be the person who sells themself the best or is most experienced\qualified\passionate :)
July 5, 2006 at 12:52 pm #32464
Or has more friends…
September 20, 2006 at 9:04 pm #33656
Its been a year since Mal’s original post. I’m now ineligible to vote since my IGDA membership has run out ;)
September 21, 2006 at 9:58 am #33658
Now that we are safe, we can go ahead then eh? :)
September 21, 2006 at 10:28 am #33659
I don’t think the results from the 22 people polled ( see top of this page ) were definitive enough :P
It would be interesting to see who was the one who voted no – anyone know how to query the database to find more detailed info on the results? :)
September 21, 2006 at 11:08 am #33662
Its been a year since Mal’s original post. I’m now ineligible to vote since my IGDA membership has run out ;)[/quote:d4ae7f4a19]maybe you should think of renewing so we can benefit from your wisdom, Ivan!
Seriously though, its a topic that still comes up a lot at the org committee meetings, but until we resolve at least to some extent the many issues (see replies to the original posts ont his topic) raised previously this isn’t really a runner.
Personally I’ve changed my mind on some of the issues. For one, I know think the main criteria for standing for election should be time available (as opposed to ability/contacts). Ability can be learned over time and introductions can be made. We’re seeing less involvement due to time constraints by some of the org committee and are less active than previous years as a result (although I still believe we’re punching above out weight compared to many other single city chapters)
Anyone care to make a stab at some suggestions to the issues?
September 21, 2006 at 11:11 am #33663
I don’t think the results from the 22 people polled ( see top of this page ) were definitive enough :P[/quote:b78fb8d8a0]probably true.. but then the same issue arises as to whether there are enough people eligible to vote in an election, eh?
It would be interesting to see who was the one who voted no – anyone know how to query the database to find more detailed info on the results?[/quote:b78fb8d8a0]probably me. See reply to Kyotokids post above. Am all in favour of annual (or whatever) elections for IGDA posts, as long as they make sense and don’t cause more problems than they solve.
I also find it curious that some of those who posted originally on this topic aren’t even IGDA members. An intersting one for another time perhaps
September 21, 2006 at 12:06 pm #33664
maybe you should think of renewing so we can benefit from your wisdom, Ivan! [/quote:f819554272]
Firstly I have no wisdom :), secondly I really cant say I see the benefits of the re-joining the IGDA – apart from the occasional (read: once a year in the N.West UK) meet up :(
It seems too US centric to me, or maybe I am missing what it does over here, or what impact it has on game industy folk over here. I am not directly involved with its activities, Im just a regular Joe, so I am a bit clueless.
I think if we are going to have elections we should ask people to register and remove the caveat that they must be fully paid up IGDA members (because there are too few)
September 21, 2006 at 12:16 pm #33666
secondly I really cant say I see the benefits of the re-joining the IGDA – apart from the occasional (read: once a year in the N.West UK) meet up :(
It seems too US centric to me, or maybe I am missing what it does over here, or what impact it has on game industy folk over here. I am not directly involved with its activities[/quote:0e821b794a]fair enough… have heard from a few folks in the UK in the last year that the IGDA has very little presence over there
The US centric focus has been a topic of hot debate over the past year among the various chapters, the international ones mostly. But it’s the usual story – if we (non-US developers) refuse to engage or get involved to change things, it will just stay the same. The usual chicken and egg, methinks
September 21, 2006 at 1:01 pm #33668
Yup, I agree with Ivan, I’ve never fully joined cos I don’t see any real benefit.
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