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Hey guys. I just finished my 4 year BSc in Software Engineering in DCU with a 2.2
I’ve always been interested in trying to work in the games industry and I’m wondering what are my options now given the degree I have? I am currently considering the HND in Computer Games Design in Ballyfermot to get a more specialised qualification. Is it worth my while doing this course or would I be better off looking for work now?
From looking at the syllabus it looks like there is a lot of stuff on the course which obviously wasnt covered in my degree. Will the HND greatly improve my chances of securing a job in a games dev company once I finish? The course is two years so I’m just trying to justify if I’d be better off applying for the course or starting to look for work right away.
I appreciate any help or advice :)
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Hi kennyd6, welcome to the boards.
You didn’t mention what kind of projects / portfolio you have from Software Engineering. Always good to have worked on games.
Computer Games Design sounds very broad. What is it you want to be hired as?
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Hey I was talking to an industry insider a while ago who said there are only two recognised courses by the industry,none in Ireland, I think one was in hull and another in Scotland. selected by Skillsoft or something. Your best bet is doing a masters in trinity.
Also, how was DCU as I will be making a college choice next year and I’m trying to get as much informaion as possible.
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I havent worked on games yet. My third year project was php/java applet web based and my final year project was Java Servlets/VoiceXML/SQL web app. Those are the two biggest projects I worked on. I guess web development has been my biggest interest from the course but as I said I’d like branch into an area in games development. I’m strongest in Java but have also worked with C++, C and have a good grounding in OOAD and Software Design/Analysis.
I’m not 100% sure what area in games I’d like to specifically get into and thats why I’m hoping the course in ballyfermot will give me a better idea of what there is for me to look at. I’m really still trying to work out my options right now
Here is the Ballyfermot course description:
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Typically for the MSc\PGDIP courses in Scotland and MSc Hull their entry requirements are a 2.1 or 1.1 degree with a signifciant element of computing to it. It is true that some of the guys from these course have found places in the industry (mostly as programmers as thats what these courses focus on, programming). Note also places are limited to a few each year (as a side note congrats to gizmo here, he recently got into Abertays one ;)).
As for the HND in Ballyfermot I’m not sure it prepares you enough for this sort of role, typically I think these guys specialise more in game design and art areas (AFAIK perhaps im wrong, either way theres a few of those guys on here who can expand more, probably even a lecturer or two).
As for your background Kennyd6 it seems you went down the programming route so far(4 years of it.lol), so its logical you can become a game programmer (if you chose that, if not you’ll probably have to get other qualifications etc as i cant see a company taking you into design without a portfolio or experience or a qualification in this particular area).
If you do decide its programming you want, then you’ll have to forget java unfortunately (unless its mobile games your into) and focus entirely on your C++ and get a kick ass demo together to get noticed by a company.
Another option is to go do a masters degree by research specialising in graphics, networking, ai etc. Use this research time to tone your programming skills and become really good at one area of games programming. This I think will help you get noticed easier (theres alot of ppl with degrees within the industry, few with msc and even fewer with phd’s, although that is changing every day). IMHO companies are alot more likely to consider you if you have further qualifications to post-grad level. Why have a grad with a bsc when you can have a grad with a phd! lol
Trinity and Blanchardstown college’s have research groups in graphics, both with some impressive work being produced. Some of those guys went on to work at game studios in rendering roles and\or returned from industry to research and teach to the new breed of grad. Personally, this is the route I chose (specialising in AI applied to real-time games at 4C research group in U.C.C.) and it got me in the door. But everyone is different.
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Ballyfermot is more of a multimedia course.
Every games professional (i.e xbox and playstation end of market) who posts here is always telling us Games Companies want people who are very good at one thing. Programmers who do some 3D modelling and sound editing etc don’t exist in workplace.
Two years being trained in a bit of everything will indeed let you know what areas are out there but may not be a tonne of help on the CV.
Why not research the industry and focus your attention on one skill set. Gamasutra.com I think will have a list of job titles and what each do. Used to have a day in the life section which I am sure is still in the archives.
Also look at job postings and make sure there is a match with the course you will do.
Oh and yes masters in trinity is kick ass. :)
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Hey kennyd6, I too got my degree in CA quite recently from DCU (graduated last year) and, as Peter said above, I’m on my way to Abertay in September for their MSc course. Now from a DCU standpoint I can tell you one thing, unless you’ve done a good bit of C/C++ on your own, you’ve got a lot of work ahead of you. :)
DCU has, for the last number of years, focused almost entirely on Java and as a result you’ll have a stream of graduates coming out of the course ready to slot into one of the numerous companies in Ireland looking for developers. Unfortunately from the perspective of someone looking to break into the games industry, that leaves you pretty much out of luck.
Peter has, as usual however, given some pretty solid advice in his reply above. If it’s AAA games you want to get into, then forget about Java, you need to get yourself some decent C++ books and concentrate on that. Once you’re comfortable with the language then you should start building up a demo. This demo is usually to get you an interview/job with a company but in your case you’ll also be able to use it as a learning tool, to see what area of development you want to get into yourself.
Alternatively you can go the post-graduate route and apply for courses in the likes of Trinity, Abertay and Hull. These courses cover the fundamentals of games programming and do so from a practical standpoint. In the latter two courses anyway you’ll have hardly any exams but alot of projects so again, by the time you’ve finished you’ll have gotten a taste for each area of development and will hopefully have a thesis dedicated to that area which you can show off to potential employers.
Hopefully that’s slightly helpful for you but rest assured, either way the ball is firmly in your court. After four years in DCU you’ll have picked up some valuable knowledge in terms of OOAD and System Analysis and Design but now is the time to focus that knowledge into areas where employers in the industry are interested.
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Gizmo we’ve actually talked about this quite a bit last year on redbrick when I was on Intra. Dunno if you remember but its "Gstorm". You were gonna go for the Trinity masters right then took a job with your intra company or demonware or something like that? Anyway conrats on the Abertay course. I knew about that course before I even started in DCU and from looking at the course website it seems I can apply for it with a 2.2
Its probably too late for me to apply for it this year. Hope it goes well for you
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Ah I do remember alright. Yep, that’s pretty much how I did it, but don’t worry about closing dates, both Abertay and Hull should still be accepting applications. As far as I’m aware Trinity’s closing date was June 30th but have a think about it anyway and go with whichever option you feel suits you best.
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Hi Kenny,
I had a quick look at the Ballyfermot course, and it does appear to be a general mix of game art, game design, game programming, and game production. Also, it is 2 years in duration(!).
As you already have an undergraduate qualification, (BSc), I’d recommend some form of graduate study, to build upon your existing programming knowledge.
Domestically, Trinity, and the Dublin gang are really pushing the envelope on game programming courses.
Regards,
Brendan. -
Hi Kenny,
I had a quick look at the Ballyfermot course, and it does appear to be a general mix of game art, game design, game programming, and game production. Also, it is 2 years in duration(!).
As you already have an undergraduate qualification, (BSc), I’d recommend some form of graduate study, to build upon your existing programming knowledge.
Domestically, Trinity, and the Dublin gang are really pushing the envelope on game programming courses.
Regards,
Brendan.[/quote:8ada81bb32]Dont want to be a spoiler but doesnt it remain to be seen the value of the Trinity course in terms of where the grads get jobs etc. In my opinion you can’t judge the course until you have some grads placed in game studios or the likes? On paper it does sound very good but jobs are the hard facts.
I know its likely a good portion will get game jobs but you can’t just say its pushing the envelope until the verdicts in. The other courses have however already put grads in jobs. I think the true value will be known in 6 months time when they have graduated.
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I think peter_b has hit the nail on the head … I just want to add one small little thing … its been said before in lots of ways by other people. You should explore the portfolios of students past and present. Thats how you can make an informed decision on where to go.
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