Home Forums General Discussion Sick of the bullshit (Time to fix it me thinks)

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    • #3213
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Hello all.

      Well here is a wacky idea. Most people on these forums are intelligent enough to realise that the Irish games industry is just crap. We have a few testers, a few middleware companies, and a handfull of mobile games companies?

      I propose that particular members of this forums, gather together to discuss the possible venture of setting up our own games development company.

      What qualifications does everyone have? We should be able to gather together at least 3 qualified programmers, 5 experienced artists and a bunch of business heads from these forums.

      We could all lobby together forming contacts until the potential funding is available, then set up. It would probably take a few hours out of our week.

      The tech heads could develop the technical documents and prototypes, heck I do that stuff for fun anyway.
      The artists could develop a comprehensive story/art bible for a potential set of products.
      The business people could do out the business plans etc?

      You see what Im getting at here. Its not due to lack of talent or want for jobs in the industry, its really due to lack of opportunities. Either way Im sick of the instability that goes with free lance jobs, and I plan on doing something about all of this.

      Anyone who is FULLY QUALIFIED (We are talking degrees, masters and diplomas here, or alternatively experience in the respected field), and interested in humouring the idea of a business setup please post here. If we gather the right numbers and the right people, brainstorm for a while and get cracking on sourcing funding we could find ourselves starting a small little dev team in no time.

      Yeah I know crazy idea. but anyone who is interested in humouring the idea just let me know.

    • #12325
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Hi Ronan,

      I’m interested.
      I’ve got a PgDip from Abertay in Comp Games Tech. Done some 3D contract work in Dundee and currently working on mobile stuff which i hate. Been waiting on receiving a job offer to come through for the past month and feeling pretty fed up. Sign me up!
      Currently in Glasgow, but thats not going to last long cos I can’t hack it here.

    • #12326
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Know the feeling, I have a Degree in Computer Science, and a Diploma in Software Engineering. I was hoping to get a fulltime job with my latest set of demo reels, but the positions were filled with not so much as an interview, 7 months work on demos and applications to rival that of the work in Far Cry and HL2. And not so much as an interview. So Im a bit annoyed but thats the game we play.

      So thats 2 engineers.

      Any legal Graduates, Accountancy Graduates?
      Marketing, Sales guys?

      Come on people, I know your there, probably working jobs you hate, for pay thats just out and out right insulting.

      We could organise this in our weekends until we are certain we could be well established with publishers etc. Nobody need loose their mortgage over this, just a few hours. :)

    • #12327
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Sounds interesting.
      I doubt I’d be willing to quit my job just yet for it but I would be willing to help you start building your technoligy.

      I have a Comp Science degree and a PG/Dip in Games.

      I have wrote quite a few demos and worked with Damo at
      DARE.

      I have written and been involved in the development of several game engines.

      At the mo I work at EA where I have just finished Harry Potter POA . My main area was with Eyetoy but I also worked on other key system components in the game (NDA)

    • #12328
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      I dont want anyone to quit there job. Its not a feasible venture yet. But at least to consider it.

      Thats 3 Engineers, and a Link to EA. Can you start to get real friendly with bosses ;)

    • #12329
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      I know.

      I am getting experience in Scotland at the moment and the plan is to be back big time in Ireland to get a company off the ground.

      I want at least one project on me CV first….so I um…know how to do my job :)

      (me level designer btw)

      [EDIT – you dont need design team though: “3 qualified programmers, 5 experienced artists and a bunch of business heads ” ;)]

    • #12331
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Well with everyone together I would assume we could determine a design that both the market place would like, the programmers can develop and the artists can expand their creative knowledge on.

      A qualified designer in my opinion should be capable of either programming or obtain some artistic ability. Not some spotty 14 year old with no talent trying to get their game developed ;)

    • #12333
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      I’m interested:

      Game Design / Documentation
      GUI’s / Usability
      Art Direction

      Ian

    • #12334
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Ronan you are right, i hope more groups will form this year to start banging down doors of game publishers to pay attention to new Irish game development companies & the powers that be within Ireland itself.

      Only the Irish will truely build the Irish game development industry into a strong foundation. We need this to happen.

    • #12335
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Well then join this proposal Darkblood, I know you personally want to get games developed, and so do I, I just dont want to move to Austrailia/America to do it.

    • #12336
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Ok being realistic here, I reckon I could gather together about 5000 euro myself. I probably know of about 3 other business people who would give money, so thats a potentiall of about 20,000 to 50,000 depending on how well we convince them.

      These investors inturn will probably link us to other investors. Bearing in mind that enterprise Ireland will give 40% of any investment, which is even more cash. Cutting development costs we could use the Torque engine with as many free middleware SDKS as possible, and work on the game. Other engines could be considered but best to avoid the open source route, as when push comes to shove we would not have a viable product.

      I believe a team of 3/4 programmers could rapidly develop a game with significant ease to get the attention of the publisher. Sure it would need to be a mainstream style title so nothing to creative.

      4/5 artists could rapidly develop and animate all the content within the game environement, Develop a nice site, and promotional material.

      Any business people involved can monitor finances and spend their time hunting down more.

      A full product demo could be complete within 5-8 months. Heck if a solid structure is put down on paper it would be possible to get something out within no time. If everyone knew what they were doing.

    • #12337
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      A have doubts that a publisher is going to give deals to an unexperience team, unless they are sitting on a game of Half-life 2 quality or have an absolutely s*** hot demo…but even then its the unproven aspect that is the problem.

      [EDIT – I dont want to be pessimistic but just speaking my mind, I will support and help any efforts as best I can]

    • #12339
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      I’m volunteering my services as an experienced and talented artist (texture, concept, web, UI).

      Lewis Boadle
      Dublin

      http://www.boadle.com

    • #12341
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Ivan has a point….look at the hiring standards that Kapooki have to adher to…but if you don’t give it a shot you’re never gonna know i guess!

    • #12343
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Hey Ronan,

      Good to see someone rabbing the bull by the horns. Just graduating this year and will be around all summer. If I can be of any help I’d love to get involved. Just coming to the end of a computer engineering degree in Trinity, and my FYP was a vehicle physics engine.

      Good luck!

    • #12344
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      All a publisher would want to see is potential for a return and the minimum cost to them.

      If a publisher could make 100 euro per game sold they would. Personally I have more than enough experience with development, I have been free-lancing for 5 years now, while the experience may not always be directly related to Games it is never the less the software development process I am familiar with, I would assume there are hundreds of other people out there who are in the same boat. Working dead end VB, Java and C/C++ based jobs when they would prefer to be working on games. Dont get me started on the number of tech support people that are more than eager for games development.

      A publisher is the least of the concerns,initial capital and business model would be of highest concerns and maintaining a steady flow of cash without relying on a publisher. But this can be achieved by freelancing. Web Design, MIS, etc could be developed to maintain a steady income.

      Also I have some very impressive tech demos, 160×160 km of terrain in realtime, with full foliage etc.

      Infinte Realistic Ocean

      22 Terrain and LOD algorithms in DirectX and OpenGL
      A dozen or so file formats including custom Max Scripts/plugins for exporting

      Portals and BSP Trees
      Realtime Light Scattering Demo
      Radiosity Demo

      My point is they are just demos, put them all together as a team and what do we have. An island 160x160km, with lush jungle environments. A complex radiosity system, with Realtime Light Scattering giving it a 24 hour system. Through an infinite realistic ocean with reflection and refraction, then finally add a hybrid of the 22 demos, allowing all kinds of model types and an array of indoor and outdoor scenes.

      Now maybe Im being Stupid, but all those algorithms and techniques when put together in an optomised fashion, could resemble a game of sorts. Now knowing how well my ligthing looks and how well the Ocean is, I do believe with a bit of love :) and a bit of care we would have a tech demo similar to Far Cry. Beef up the polycounts and polish around the edges for 6 months and we would be on the road.

      Now I know there are many pitfalls and this is just a sample of the work I have done, add in the work everyone else has done, and it is very possible that a game could be made.

      Now I must say that Im sitting here in awe as to the type of game that we should create, but this is too good to put on some boards. Sorry but It just hit me, and Im thinking my god this would sell and what a first title it would be. Not only that but it is possible to do it with minimum effort and fanc terrain algorithms are not even needed. Infact very few would be.

      Anyway, enough about my kick ass vision. The point of my rather long unexpected rant is that it can be done, either way the experience and knowledge that resides in this country should not be forced to move abroad to get a job in the industry nor should we have to wait inline to get a job in Kabooki Games, TKO or Havok. We should have the option of at least a dozen or so game developers, and one way or another Im going to see it done.

      Post here if you want part of it, we would need business people as I am no manager, or accountant.

      Cheers
      Ronan

    • #12345
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      I have other commitments, so I am only posting out of interest.

      Initially, when I read this thread, I thought of the Help Wanted forum on gamedev.net, and the way “I wanna make quake” threads are regularly posted there.

      This currently seems to be a bit different, as the people invovled seem to be a lot more skilled.

      Could you clarify, are you suggesting:

      A) a part-time, contribute when you can, production?
      Or
      B) the forming of a full time development team?

      I would advise consulting with someone who has games industry experience, in a production role, as to the feasibility of going for option B from scratch.

      An approach closer to A might work better for a first project, and if something good is produced, it could be used as proof of a teams credentials.

      I think after the scope of the enterprise has being sketched out, the first thing a serious team would need to do is solicit the opinion of those already involved in the industry, as to the feasibility of the project.

      Its great to see Irish people willing to consider such a venture. I imagine people will be looking on interestedly to see what happens next.

    • #12347
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      I will help you Ronan & i am hopful more people keep adding to this topic. There is much to talk and prepare but this is in the right direction.

    • #12349
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      A publisher is the least of the concerns,initial capital and business model would be of highest concerns and maintaining a steady flow of cash without relying on a publisher. But this can be achieved by freelancing. Web Design, MIS, etc could be developed to maintain a steady income.[/quote:a06620dadb]

      I happen to know that is what other companies started to do in Ireland – that is the model of “we will make mobile games initially etc, then move into consoles\pc”.

      I think it is option A, no?:

      A) a part-time, contribute when you can, production?
      Or
      B) the forming of a full time development team?

    • #12350
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Ronan, your vision of a Far Cry world sounds great. The one thing that I ask is, have you thought out your unique selling points?
      When we won Dare last year we did a RPG game with some really nice USPs. The comments that we got back were that it wasn’t marketable for a first time team because of the competition out there….who’s going to buy some random new product when they could just buy Diablo, Neverwinter Nights, ect… When you talk about Far Cry, I see FPS….breaking into the FPS market, you’re going to need something REALLY special.

      I’m not trying to be disparaging, just getting the thought processes going. I vision of a world is fine, but the vision of the game is what is needed.

      Have you thought this through, is this for discussion on creation of said team??

    • #12354
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Hi Ronan et al,

      I have been reading through these posts and I am very impressed with the responses and the skills of those responding so far. I really think that with skillful engineers and artists, an impressive demo could be created in a relatively short amount of time that could be used as part of a detailed proposal to various large publishers. I would like to register my support for this venture. I am an experienced 3D graphic artist, using apps like 3DS Max, Photoshop, Combustion, Premiere. I also have some experience with Flash.

      If we can create an impressive demo, and get financial backing from a publisher, we would be well on the road to creating a fully fledged title.

      I am currently working full time, but I would be more than willing to work on this in my spare time.
      I worked for Codemasters a couple of years back and helped one of the guys in there create a small shoot em up game in our spare time. He did the programming, I did the models. We knocked it up in no time.
      Point is, with experienced programmers and artists, anything is possible.

      You can check out my website, which has some of my 3D work on it.
      http://noopti.topcities.com/

      Cheers
      Dave

    • #12355
      Aphra K
      Keymaster

      good to see you guys getting together. If there is anything the rest of us can do to support just ask…

      Aphra.

    • #12358
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      One other point of note…
      When you are working for a games company. I know that technically any work you do at home is your ip, unless your contract specifies otherwise. People should check up on this before committing themselves to this project.
      New contract on the way to me, hence I thought of it…

    • #12361
      Jamie Mc
      Keymaster

      Not a tech head at all, but I’m 3/4 of the way through my marketing degree, a year to go in college, graduating in Summer 2004, but currently working for demonWare.

      There are a few assumptions that have been made on the business end of things from the posts I have been reading, but I’d be interested in at least lending a hand if there was any needed, and considering that the tech side would be dominant for the first few months, I might be able to help later on in the process.

      Also, just a more topical note, if everyone’s finished, or wrapping up college at the moment, might do no harm to get together and have a pint while you discuss ideas, get people to meet face-to-face makes it all that more real.

      Jamie

    • #12364
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      I could make yis coffee, I know Ronny would give me a glowing reference….;)

      I’m employed full time at the mo, haven’t got time to help out on the art side, but if I can be of any help with advice etc. don’t hesitate to ask.

      Milk and sugar??

    • #12367
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Working full time at the mo, between teaching game design in Ballyfermot and Mobile Games product managment stuff for an aggregator, but very interested in R&D phase of project if it’s once a week…

      Did Ludo course and CS diploma myself, very good sound editing and composition skills, and BIG interest in AI, scripting, steering, behaviours, etc.

      Check out Qube Engine for ideas http://www.qubesoft.com, the Pc license is free, soo are Maya Max exporters, they have a very nice editing interface and good user feedback via a mail_list.
      I use it for one of the courses in college…

      I also have a few games designs; taking the stakes a step further: One of them is a MMO world based on the movie Warriors, rings a bell?

      count me in,

      Sergio

    • #12368
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      watch the comma on the link above

      http://www.qubesoft.com

    • #12370
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Ogre3D might be worth a look too. Has a physics interface aswell as far as I know.

      http://www.ogre3d.org

    • #12371
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Is there any thoughts of looking a little bit closer to home for a 3D Engine as in Torc’s Instinct engine?
      Any thoughts from Torc regarding their licence to new Irish startups?
      Just a thought. :)

    • #12372
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Firstly I would go at this part-time, establish a strong team, know we can work together, and be sure we can create and implement a strong business model.

      I have been thinking about the Unique Selling points of games and to be honest I think I have a winner. Infact I know I have a winner, why you may ask? Because its so simple and so clear that nobody has yet thought of it.

      With regards to developing a demo. Given the correct artwork I could whip out a demo within a week or two.

      Anyway, I want to get some proper and effective brainstorming and evaluation going.

    • #12378
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Hi everyone,

      The energy in this thread is very encouraging, I must say. I know you’re only putting out feelers at the moment, Ronan, but until there’s a more solid picture of what your business goals are, I can’t commit to anything, but let me just say for now that I’m interested. I would like to be able to contribute something however.

      I coordinate the Game Design HND course in Ballyfermot, mentioned above by Sergio (ManE) and am one one of the original founders of Kapooki. My background is in 3D and all the art-related trappings that go with it, but as years go by, I’m slowly morphing towards the scripting/interactivity side of things.

      If the most I can offer is advice, I’d still very much like to be involved with whatever projects emerge.

      Take a look at quest3d. It’s an extremely high-level 3D authoring tool, intended for silulations and architecture vis, but is moving more and more towards games. It looks like Virtools at first glance , but unlike Virtools it:

      1. Is laid out in a logical manner
      2. Works properly

      Oddly, it doesn’t have an undo, but I’d put up with that for all the stuff it does well. The visual nature of the program would suit a project for the emerging group in this thread I think because people working in different areas from engineering — graphics, sound, design, whatever, would be able to understand their roles and rate the project’s progress simply by looking at screengrabs posted to a website. (I don’t know if you’d really call it “programming” in the traditional sense of having lines of code — it strings schematic diagrams of building blocks together instead). It’s pretty robust, though probably wouldn’t do an epic strategy game with thousands of 3D characters. It could feasibly be used to reproduce the equivalent of a 10-player counterstrike, I would think, though I have to confess I haven’t finished anything in it yet — just used it for testing various ideas. There are plenty of demos you can see from the site though.

      It also uses the standard .X format, which of course means that artists aren’t limited to one program, or indeed expensive software (milkshape uses .X). So a nice modding culture could feasibly come out of this if the design wasn’t set up with an iron fist, even though you wouldn’t be modding in the hobbyist/fanboy sense of working from someone else’s game as a starting point.

      3D Game Studio also uses .X and .MAP files for more FPS-style games and is pretty easy to use, but nowhere near as simple as Quest3D.

      Both of these only do PCs but you have to walk before you can run.

      One more point that strikes me having looked at the forum — don’t leave sound as an afterthought. Sound people need to be involved from the start.

      Best of luck,

      Shane

    • #12379
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      All a publisher would want to see is potential for a return and the minimum cost to them.

      Sorry to dampen the ardour, but publishers want to see the potential for one hell of a return, massive enough to pay for all the investments that they’ll make and end up going down the toilet.

      Minimum cost, yes. They would love you to have the game 50% developed, but that’s not realistic.

      How do I know? Started the games company, got investment, got publishers, hired talent, sold some product and went belly-up. Best time of my life, in good company with many others who lost money.

      Conor O’Nolan, age 45, grey hair and lots of t-shirts.

    • #12380
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Hi,
      Has anyone any knowledge of http://www.renderware.com/
      Looks like the best middleware you can get!

    • #12381
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      I know things are airy fairy at the moment, but I want to test the water, to be sure there is enough interest and potential. I have many tee-shirts as well.

      Anyone in dublin who would be willing to meet to further discussions on this please let me know. I would be able to meet anytime next week, either daytime or nighttime. Preferably if one large group of us met, we could probably hammer out ideas, and plans for progression. If anyone is interested, either post or email me.

      Say Tuesday : 8PM St Pats Cathederal Park? Or a pub of some description if its wet, best to meet somewhere that we can all talk.

    • #12384
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      free all next week till friday!
      keep me posted on a meeting, will defo be there!

      Would be good if people brought examples of there work!

    • #12385
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      free all next week till friday!
      keep me posted on a meeting, will defo be there!

      Would be good if people brought examples of there work! [/quote:d7366c4221]

      How? – I’d have to make a level out of paper mache! (bad joke – sorry)

      Hope the meeting goes well – I suggest you lot go meet in a pub, it just seems right to give birth to an Irish game project in a pub….and the booze will fuel your creativity :D

    • #12386
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Am probably back in Ireland next friday night or early the following week, and then I’ll be down south anyways….
      The hassels of being a culchie!

    • #12388
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Fearg,

      Renderware probably is the best you can get at the moment from the point of view of creating peace of mind for a publisher, as it works with the three main consoles as well as PC. It’s expensive though and I’d be wary of it as an entry-level tool, but I’m not a programmer so definitely get another opinion. To the best of my knowledge, it has no high-level scripting, but it does have viewers and particle makers and so on. Someone from Kapooki can shed more light, I’m sure.

      Quest isn’t a bad prototyping tool because you can do pretty much anything that DirectX 8 allows, even if you only wanted to use it to drum up interest among publishers with a prototype and then finish the project in a “proper” engine (paid for by the publisher) — though I’d say that would be a dicey strategy in most cases. Much of your engine choice will probably depend on the game design, though they all do pretty much the same thing with different levels of ease/reliability.

      I’d like to come along on Tuesday, but I don’t think I can make it.

      Good luck,

      Shane

    • #12389
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      I will be able to meet up on Tuesday, as long as I’m not working overtime in work(which has been a lot lately!).

      But I would give a provisional yes to meeting on Tuesday.

    • #12391
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      I’ll be there.

    • #12396
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Interview with Scott Miller…

      Q: You have been in the gaming industry longer than most, how has the game development industry changed over the years?

      A: It’s 100 times more competitive overall. And it’s much more difficult for new studios to start up.

      http://www.gamingeye.com/english/artiklar/artikel.eye?type=interview&id=2580&PHPSESSID=84760c18debea

    • #12413
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      So, are we meeting up tomorrow? It would be good to dicuss this in person…

    • #12414
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      I think everyone gets the point at this stage that starting up a games development company in Ireland is not the easiest thing in the world, but once you know what the situation is, it’s the working hard and the going for your dreams that matters.

    • #12416
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      I will be there at St-Pats Cathederal at 8PM wearing my trademark nerd style t-shirt. I think today is a day for a bright red Mutley T-Shirt.

      Right I’ll be there, probably standing alone :) so dont get the wrong impression ;) you know what I mean.

      See whoever

    • #12420
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Cool. I’m 80% sure I will be able to make it, but I won’t know for sure until this evening if I will have to work late.

    • #12432
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Sorry I wasn’t able to make it in the end. Ended up working till all hours last night. How did it go?

    • #12438
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      There were five of us. Myself, Fearg, Ian, Ronan and Sergio.

      Of course the first meeting was an introductions and general bouncing of ideas session.

      We agreed that as a unit we possessed a wide variety of skills and a good degree of experience in our relevant areas, and that we needed to come up with a concept / genre / approach which would

      – Maximise our advantages (small, flexible team, with minumum overheads) to minimise our disadvantages (little industry experience, no huge development team, stiff competition)

      – Potentially tap the vast Irish audience

      – Do something a little different

      The next step now is to have a brainstorm and see what we can come up with.

      If the enthusasiasm and the desire to see this through was anything to go by, watch this space.

      Lewis

    • #12446
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      What scale of production did you discuss – part time / full time / downloadable content / full boxed game, or is it too early for that?

      Dave

    • #12447
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Haven’t posted here in a while but it’s good to see some stuff getting underway. My background is in Commerce (in that I have a degree in it) but for the last two to three years I’ve been working as a programmer (Visual Basic but I have a rudimentary knowledge of C++).

      If you do need help with the business end of things when you have a more concrete idea of what you’re doing I’d be happy to help in any way I could.

    • #12448
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Hi Dave / Earthhorse
      A single polished demo-level, part-time and a bit too early to say on the rest. You interested?

      Help from C++ / marketing people would I’m sure be welcome and a big help!

      Anyone?

    • #12451
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Am back in Ireland this weekend for a month’s holidays before coming back to the uk, so I could probably help out on the C++ side if you interested.

    • #12452
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      does this mean we’ll finally get you along to a Shindig, Damian?!

    • #12454
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Thanks for the update Lewis! :)

      The biggest thing in my mind is to be original. The only way to make a big splash with a small team is to throw something new and exciting into the mix.

      An orginal, exceptional game concept is key.

    • #12455
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      does this mean we’ll finally get you along to a Shindig[/quote:42b06498fd]
      Well that would depend….when is the next one, and does anyone feel like going to it via wexford ;)

      The biggest thing in my mind is to be original. The only way to make a big splash with a small team is to throw something new and exciting into the mix. [/quote:42b06498fd]

      If you go too original and too new, publishers would think this is something too big for a new team to do right for a full game…maybe with an experienced team it could work. Its a tough mix and an even tougher sell.

    • #12456
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Ian,

      I’d certainly be interested. Should point out though that it’d be more the business side I’d imagine myself helping on because when I say rudimentary knowledge of C++, I mean rudimentary!

      I’ll keep an eye on this thread to see how things develop and pop along to the next meet up if I can.

    • #12457
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Hi Earthhorse,
      We’ll be meeting next Tuesday at 8, same place. The marketing input would be very helpful! Hope to see you there.

      Cheers,
      Ian

    • #12462
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Yeah things went pretty well. Next week will be a tad different. We will be meeting at St-Pats Cathedral. Wait for everyone one to turn up.

      This time we will be heading back to my flat (if thats acceptable, otherwise we can head to nashes pub again, but with a bigger crowd it may not be such a good idea). Its pretty close by. The reason I want to do it this way is because its quiet enough for us to battle around ideas, and I can show demos of software and applications etc that we should be using. I have also hunted down some demos that never made it. So we cna critique them and see how much further we have to go.

      So if you want to bring drinks or any of that kinda stuff feel free.

      For those who didnt turn up last time, please think of as many game concepts as possible, as next week we plan on cutting the number of concepts down drastically. So we have about 3 or 4 concepts that appeal to everyone.

      Cheers
      Ronan

    • #12469
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Ok, I will definitely be going to the next meeting. I have told my boss in advance that I can’t work late next Tuesday. :)

      I have 3 differant game concepts that I have been thinking about for a long while now. However, they are quite complex and might not be ideal for a first project. I will type up some docs on them though and being them along anyway.

      There is no concept art or anything like that at this stage, it is basically 3 differant, and original gameplay ideas from which to build a game around. I think that they are unique ideas that would be a good selling point for any possible future gaming project.
      It will be good to get all our ideas out there and then decide on something that is orginal, and which could be accomplished(a working demo at least) by us. We can also mix and match gameplay concepts too if need be.

      Looking forward to meeting you all next Tuesday.

      On a side note, I started trying to model Gollum yesterday, and he turning out more like some weird monkey man! :confused: Check it out:

    • #12477
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Well, that’s what happens when you only pop by erratically, you miss things entirely… 8 o’clock at St Pats? I’ll call by, but, in the interests of simplicity, I will say my experience is relatively limited as regards games. I’m a 2d artist with very basic 3d knowledge, Graphic Design grad currently freelancing in comics and I can write – I’ve been working as writing lead for the past year on a similar project that bit off a bit too much more than it could chew.

      Just a thought to the more experienced forum members – all the established genres have their big names that most people will buy, so how do games that fall somewhere in between fare? Stuff like System Shock 2- is it a shooter, an RPG, or a stealth game? Do they fall between the cracks or do they stand out as being different?

    • #12478
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      I think those types of games confuse the masses, as they don’t know how to label a game like System Shock 2 – the mention of RPG elements to a the average first person shooter fan will glaze eyes over.

      I think there is a great deal of potential to expanding FPS’s, but making sure that you get the word out about why people need to play your different and cool FPS is very important.

      Thats a scary game…you can feel there will eventually be a sequel (Its EA though…..they could give it to Free Radical – that would be nice :) )

    • #12481
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Going in the middle is dangerous ground….look at Battlefield Aquila. A mech game that tries to be arcade too.
      The mech side of the game alienated anyone who wasn’t in mechs, the arcade side of the game alienated the mech fans cos its not a real mech game…result = failure.

    • #12483
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Deus Ex was also a FPS crossed with a RPG and that was a major success.
      In the end you are trying to come up with a cool interactive experience that people can pick up and enjoy. Classifying it into genres is really only a secondary concern.

    • #12484
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Yeah, I thought it could turn out that way unless you have a solid rep or a liscensed property that effectively demands the inclusion of different genre styles.

      Isn’t Spector trying to get System Shock 3?

    • #12486
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Genre is useful to critics, AFTER a product has been done.

      Did castle Wolfenstein “create” the term First Person Shooter?

      The modes of interaction between man and game have certanly not been exhausted…

      while taking inspiration from what’s out there, we can’t afford to get into static categorizations.

      How would you explain Hip-Hop, Nu-Metal and the like otherwise…:confused:

    • #12487
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      So basically…forget about cross genre and come up with something thats cool….its can be genre classified/cross classifed after the cool idea is in place.

    • #12488
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Isn’t Spector trying to get System Shock 3? [/quote:6a3a24a8a2]

      I’ve heard nay a peep about any rumours at all….

    • #12500
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      So is the meeting still on today at St Pats @ 8:30?

    • #12501
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      I’ll be there from 8. Email me and I will give you my phone number. SO you can all contact me.

      edge@vodafone.ie

    • #12507
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Cool, I’ll send you an e-mail now…

    • #12518
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      I must say that I admire the spirit here, while I’m nowhere near as qualified as you guys, if I were I would be with you ina shot. best of luck

    • #12582
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Hi all,
      Can the new people from last night if still interested send their email to myself at this address:

      ian@slowrocket.com

      Cheers,
      Ian

    • #12590
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      So what are the latest developments on this after last night? :)

    • #13516
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Any updates lads?

    • #13523
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Hi All
      We have begun development of several smaller scale projects that will build into one large project, all adding to our portfolios.

      Simply put we should have lots of small demos, all building to one large comprehensive game demo when complete.

      We will soon need more people with experience in (or a desire to gain experience in) concept art, texturing, 3D modelling, level design, animation, sound design or C++ Programming.

      Please post here if you would like to get involved.

      Thanks for the interest!
      Ian

    • #13524
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      HI guy’s well sounds like these are starting to roll out, as regards to 2d artists i am a Qualified Graphic Designer and am experienced in both PhotoShop and Illustrator aswell as Indesign, although I won’t be back in Dublin until August I would be happy to do some “concept art”(I am a skilled draughtsman aslo/anime,ect) for ye, just drop me a line via E-Mail or PM describing what you would like done, be it In game concept art or character sketches. Oh and If you want a preview of my work mail me and i’ll get onto you.

      cheers

      *edit*
      I would be willing to put in 2-3 hours a day also to this project, regardless of what I would be doing, I’m excited to see where this will lead???

    • #13541
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Keep up the good work lads, this is definitely a great way to get the bones of a future Irish game development company together… if I wasn’t up to my elbows in various different projects, I’d lend a coding / design hand as well.

      For any Dublin game devs reading this and not putting their name forward, if you have the enthusiasm and some game-related skill, go along to one of the gatherings… eg if you can draw comic book sketches, that could be ideal for putting together a character bible for one of the games.

      A lot of the time ( if an existing engine exists ) could potentially be spent putting content into the game engine, based on a game design document somewhere, so this is a good way of gaining skills in an area that is fairly easy to get into ( it’s not quite as difficult as coding etc ).

      Regards, and I look forward to hearing of your future plans…
      Mal

    • #13543
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Stage 1: Use free engines (garage games etc..) for demo stuff
      Stage 2: Instinct Engine for final product
      Stage 3: Sleep on pile of money

      easy!

      There is a team in Germany (not crytek) that are using the German developed Crytek engine ( http://www.tnturtles.net) – mnakes sense to me.

    • #13545
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Just as a matter of interest when do you guys think you’ll be meeting again?

      I would like to be able to attend the next discussion.

      cheers

    • #13553
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Meeting places may change so can people interested in coming along please drop me a PM here or email Ronan at: edge@fallenarmies.com

      Thanks,
      Ian

    • #13554
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Every Tuesday @ 8 in Delaney’s Pub, Aungier St. Dublin. [/quote:0e143939ad]

      Well I can’t travel to Dublun every week, but I presume these meetings will still be goning in sep.

    • #13555
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Hopefully! ;) I’m sure they will!

      We can work by the magic of the Interweb for now if that suits you? Fire off those samples and we’ll take it from there.

      Cheers,
      Ian

    • #13560
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      can’t promise i can make delany’s next week..

      maybe..

      but.. let me know if you need any help with soundtracks and sound design :D

    • #13569
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Just a thought guy’s, but some of you have mentioned making a new original game concept, while this is optimistic it’s maybe not so practical when considering our situation, albiet our forseeable situation.

      A great observation is one of the fact that many top developers never pull off totally original ideas, or more the public doesn’t buy into it ‘johnny casual’, so (and I hate to be the one to say it) maybe it’s best if we stick with a successful formula, ie kill everything on site type of game, afterall we have to remember that althought creativity is the common goal, for us just putting together a good demo would suffice..hmmm the market is a harsh place.

      I hope no one takes this post the wrong way, it’s not meant to be pesimistic, but someone has to say it.

    • #13572
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      http://www.rainfallstudios.com/Articles/CanIMakeMoneyasanindie/summary.aspx

      http://www.gamasutra.com/features/20040721/carless_01.shtml

      http://www.rainfallstudios.com/Articles/BirthOfTheIndieGamesMovement/summary.aspx

      Some interesting links on indie game development (effectively what you guys are doing). (I imagine you may well all have read this stuff before)

      Good to hear this:

      >We have begun development of several smaller scale projects that will build into one large project, all adding to our portfolios.

      I think that makes a lot of sense, rather than trying to build an over ambitious game.

    • #13583
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Thanks for the info Feral! I’ve passed the links on to the rest of the group! How’s the new job going for you?

      Cheers,
      Ian

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