Your views on games courses

[Anonymous]

"If a games course student cannot get a job in the games industry, where do they get a job? It’s not the most transferrable of degrees, compared to more traditional courses"

"In fact our recommendation at EA is that we prefer people to have traditional degrees, so somebody studying computer science, maths or physics and then coming into a programming role, means that they can then go off into a number of different industries and be successful."

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=32817

[/quote:679186dba4]

This made me do a good bit of thinking about games degrees. I’ve always been sceptical and have been quick to put them down. There are certain courses in the UK and Ireland that anger and frustrate me. I don’t just mean a few courses that aren’t of 100% quality, I mean courses that make you ask "how the hell do they get away with this?"

But despite all that.. I genuinely believe that we need game development courses. Interactive entertainment is now a massive part of the media world and it needs exceptional artists and programmers that can drive forward and redefine games again and again. That might sound like a cheesy marketing line, but it’s true. Certainly traditional degrees are still necessary (and I would argue that right now they’re almost always worth taking over a games degree), but I don’t think it’ll be too long before a games degree will (or should) be a fantastic notch in your belt. We should certainly be working towards that day.

Just an hour ago I spoke with someone in England who is coming to the end of his BA Games Design degree. Anything he’s learnt has been outside of the classroom and his teaching staff has done nothing to help him find a job after he graduates. Quite frankly, I think he’ll just be another games graduate working in a call centre.

So I’m just throwing this out there… where do you see games courses going? How can they prepare students for the games industry while also giving them a skillset to transfer to other industries? Are you or would you take a games course and what do you think about it?

Just curious is all. Would be interesting to get some feedback.

[Anonymous]

i don’t know if this is going to help but i’m in secondary and would like to do programming, im not sure wat course i would like to do but im veering towards a computer science course

[Anonymous]

I think games courses should be quiet exclusive, the government should have more of a say in vetting a course for quality…or have that say now but don’t enforce it. The reason I say exclusive is because there are not a huge number of jobs in games, so why would we need a large number of courses, why not try to have fewer better courses. What has happened in Ireland seems ludicrous to me, there are so many courses and yet do any of them apart from the Trinity course have any affiliation with games companies? Do they have any staff that worked in the industry? Do they have any industry approval of their course content?
Tradition CS degrees followed by specialising in games seems a mcu appropriate way to go. You learn transferable skills and then focus on what you want to show to employers you’re serious about it and some something to put you in good standing.
As for staff not helping students to find jobs…in fairness, thats not their job and I can’t see how they could easily do that. I have contacted previous lecturers about advertising positions we have to their students but without industry people contacting lecturers first, they can’t really do that.

[Anonymous]

But despite all that.. I genuinely believe that we need game development courses. Interactive entertainment is now a massive part of the media world and it needs exceptional artists and programmers that can drive forward and redefine games again and again. That might sound like a cheesy marketing line, but it’s true. [/quote:1f0c20f314]

Definitely. All the other arts and media have them, so why not this industry ? It’s not like gaming is stuck in no-mans land anymore as it was in the 80s and early 90s; it’s now a multi billion dollar industry and growing. Time enough then that it would be considered as a serious career choice by academia.

Certainly traditional degrees are still necessary (and I would argue that right now they’re almost always worth taking over a games degree), but I don’t think it’ll be too long before a games degree will (or should) be a fantastic notch in your belt. We should certainly be working towards that day.[/quote:1f0c20f314]

I certainly hope we get to that stage, but it’s going to required a drastic shift in attitude from both academia and the industry.

Colleges need to stop treating games as a cheap ploy to lure students onto their courses, and start taking the industry seriously. They also need to listen to the industry and be adaptive it’s needs, rather than continuing on aimlessly with course content that has absolutely no bearing or relevance to the industry. They also need the right people to teach this content, which is a big problem for many courses.

The industry on the other hand needs to spend more time nuturing the future talent of tomorow and stop ‘cherry-picking’ the best graduates out of courses, working them to death until they pack up and leave games for good. Here’s an interesting article from a senior guy at Rare talking about their approach to recruitment:

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/3529/academic_expansion__how_rare_.php

This to me seems to be the right way of going about things. Fair dues to Rare for this refreshing and forward thinking approach..

Just an hour ago I spoke with someone in England who is coming to the end of his BA Games Design degree. Anything he’s learnt has been outside of the classroom and his teaching staff has done nothing to help him find a job after he graduates. Quite frankly, I think he’ll just be another games graduate working in a call centre.[/quote:1f0c20f314]

That’s a shame to hear. Though if he’s as capable of learning independantly as you say then I think he’ll definitely find somewhere eventually. Most of college work is not just about learning certain material, but also learning how to learn.. That’s about as important a skill as any.

So I’m just throwing this out there… where do you see games courses going? How can they prepare students for the games industry while also giving them a skillset to transfer to other industries? Are you or would you take a games course and what do you think about it?[/quote:1f0c20f314]

That’s hard to say, and being caught in the middle of it all myself (I’m on a games course) then I probably don’t have the clearest perception of the situation. Not that I’m too worried about it either; I decided to give up on that a long time ago and just go with the flow.. :)

About transferable skills, I’d say that games courses encompass most of the topics and subjects that regular computer science courses do, so graduates shouldn’t be at too much of a disadvantage in that regard. The only problem is in the packaging.. Employers tend to look down with a certain disdain upon anyone with a games degree, so work needs to be done in order to change that attitude.

Good post anyhow, I’m sure there will be lots interesting replies :)

[Aphra K]

for people who are new here we did have a feature on this issue from an industry perspective – http://www.gamedevelopers.ie/features/viewfeature.php?article=135

and from the academic perspective
see http://www.gamedevelopers.ie/features/viewfeature.php?article=136

While we list courses here on gd.ie we don’t evaluate them and rely on lecturers to send us the course outline and students attending the courses and world of mouth to hear more about them.

The general consensus so far seems to be the more industry links the better and where there are lecturers from the industry even better. Of course both these things are challenges for unis and ITs in Ireland because of the size of the Irish industry – but there are always UK companies and advanced researchers to draw upon too.

Overtime places will establish reputations for being good places to study games – just as other places have become the places to go to study animation, film, computer science, multimedia etc. Then we will have to make it widely known.

Aphra.

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