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This topic contains 34 replies, has 9 voices, and was last updated by  gizmo 12 years, 6 months ago.

  • Author
    Posts
  • #3820

    kyotokid
    Keymaster

    Games biz not covered…thats why I posted a comment (near the bottom)

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4273169.stm

  • #18015

    Darksaviour69
    Participant

    The poll only covers staff covered by a trade union. As video game developers (artists and software engineers) it is not uncommon for us to work 60-100 hour weeks, but we won’t appear on any polls because we don’t have union cover.
    Anon, Scotland.[/quote:6b7763e318]

    that you?

    you got quoted

    it is not uncommon for us to work 60-100 hour weeks, but we won’t appear on any polls because we don’t have union cover
    Anon, Scotland
    [/quote:6b7763e318]

    is there no union for game developers? in the past game companies were small so and you had that “lets all chip in together”, but today with the big boys like EA (boo, hiss…Q darth vader music), over working the average worker i suprised there is no union…

  • #18016

    kyotokid
    Keymaster

    11 hours – that is not that much. They should have surveyed the videogame industry…Oh wait that does not have a union.
    Ivan McCloskey, Dundee[/quote:dbdb9731f6]

    Thats me :)

    loads of game posts now:

    It seems that the “IT Professionals” category must have excluded professionals working in the video game industry. Had it done so, we would be top of the league by far. In crunch time at the end of projects it is very common to do well over an average of 30 unpaid hours of overtime per week.
    Martin, Derby, UK[/quote:dbdb9731f6]

    etc….

  • #18017

    Nooptical
    Participant

    Overtime is grand once the salary reflects it…..but the problem is most of the time it doesn’t. In the videogames industry anyway considering the hours put in…..

  • #18020

    Darksaviour69
    Participant

    sorry kyotokid, that person is from scotland too so i thought it might have been you….. but i did think ” thats not near the bottom” ;)

  • #18021

    omen
    Participant

    Are you really doing an average of over 11 hours a week Ivan ??
    Bloody hell!

  • #18024

    kyotokid
    Keymaster

    Thats only 2 extra hours a day…not all of us are in submission Mr Fancy Pants ;)

    They are probably more posts now DarkSaviour – another guy from work has posted too :)

  • #18025

    omen
    Participant

    Yeah, but your crunch time is sounding like an extended EA crunch time!

  • #18028

    Nooptical
    Participant

    Don’t mention the “E” word, in conjunction with the “A” word……..asking for trouble.

  • #18034

    Ronny
    Participant

    Are you really doing an average of over 11 hours a week Ivan ??
    Bloody hell! [/quote:b341a2a944]
    Good to see Core Design working around the clock to make up for that last Tomb Raider game of theirs. :D

    Could many developers even afford to pay for overtime? Some companies are really suffering. Throw in who knows much more money and that could be the final nail in the coffin.

  • #18044

    omen
    Participant

    I don’t see why we would need to. Its all about competent staff and good scheduling.
    We did some over time, but average that across them year and it come out at very little per week.

  • #18046

    Nooptical
    Participant

    Could many developers even afford to pay for overtime? Some companies are really suffering. Throw in who knows much more money and that could be the final nail in the coffin.[/quote:0d54a6dbea]

    Well, companies like EA could.
    Of course smaller companies may not be able to, but usually with smaller companies the workers are more willing to work overtime for nothing because they feel a part of the company as a whole and have an interest in seeing it grow.
    Having said that, they should get some sort of reward for their efforts, and I don’t mean a patronising pat on the back either.

  • #18048

    kyotokid
    Keymaster

    This stupid overtime is a throwback to the old culture of videogames. Now its all about squeezing people and pushing them to their limit just to get a game out or pass milestones.

    I’ve heard some horror stories about Rockstar – so dont think just cause your successful that that means no long hours.

    You just have to see that bbc post to view how many games people are griping.

    I dont know how the industry could survive as we know it without this culture of overtime.

    Publishers need to lose control of this business…that might help a bit.

  • #18049

    Nooptical
    Participant

    I can certainly see it coming to a head Kyoto. The sooner Unions are formed the better, at least then the employees will have some degree of power in this industry.

  • #18051

    omen
    Participant

    If/When it comes to a head, a lot of companies are going to go under.
    But seriously, its not just games, its all IT companies. My brother works as an admin for IBM, he does lots of un-paid over-time and even has to be on-call with his mobile and a lap-top 24-7.

  • #18052

    Nooptical
    Participant

    Overtime is prevalent in all I.T yes, but nowhere even near to the extent of the games industry. I’ve work in software for the past 5 years and I have done overtime, but its usually only maybe 2-3 hours per night, at most. Towards the shipping date you might have to do a Saturday or maybe work a bit later during the week(10-11pm or so). Those extra hours are then given as time in leiu. Which is fine because there are a lot of times in general I.T that you aren’t busy and you can use them.
    Time in leiu seems to be useless in games, especially with the likes of EA, because chances are once you finish your crunch on one project, you are thrown into another which is hitting crunch. Its endless. So you don’t have any time to use your extra days holidays.

    If/When it comes to a head, a lot of companies are going to go under.[/quote:532e6e46cd]
    If thats what it takes to give employees a bit more of a life in this industry then so be it.

  • #18053

    omen
    Participant

    Umm…I know people in EA and when they finished their last game they were all given time off. As far as I know, they’re currently working normal working hours. Don’t let the constant horror stories make it worse than it actually is. Some places have problems, yes, but its not always the case.
    Another benefit that I know EA do and we do in Core ( i assume its an Eidos wide thing ) is that because it is known you may have to do lots of overtime and get stressed, their is the option of taking a sabbatical.

  • #18056

    Nooptical
    Participant

    Maybe so, but horror stories are horror stories none the less. They still indicate what can happen with some companies and if employees had some sort of organised Union it would be possible to front up against any greivances without having to write an internet blog about it as your only means of taking action.

  • #18060

    DeeK
    Participant

    Even without unions you can’t be made work more than the Working Time Directive permits. Relevant Irish legislation is here
    Legislation Link. Of course it is always easier to have a union fight that battle for you, rather than get into a David and Goliath position yourself. Still its useful to know.

  • #18062

    kyotokid
    Keymaster

    Alot of companies want you to sign waivers to this….

  • #18063

    peter_b
    Participant

    do those waivers stand up in ireland?

    i know the majority of investment banks in the u.k.\usa want you to sign waivers

  • #18065

    Nooptical
    Participant

    I wouldn’t work for a company that asked me to sign a waiver like that. There is no way I would sign my rights away…..

  • #18066

    peter_b
    Participant

    well they do say that its only on crunch
    times, which you will be compensated for in either overtime cash or days in lieu.

    Also you dont have to sign the waiver, and if you do sign you can retract it by giving 3 months notice at any stage.

    a buddy of mine has signed one for a leading bank in london and he’s never had to do it yet (there about 2 years).

    i suspect come time of promotion you might be discriminated against because you didnt sign the waiver. i.e. not a team player blah blah..

  • #18067

    Nooptical
    Participant

    I would rather still have my rights than be a “team player”. For a small company I would consider signing a waiver, but for a corp, no way. Smaller companies tend to have a bit more respect for there employers and would see the waiver as a last resort measure. Corps would probably see it in a “we’ve got these sucker by the balls now” kinda way.

    Maybe I’m completely wrong, but thats how I see it personally.

  • #18068

    omen
    Participant

    Think I signed something like that. Option was to allow working overtime or every week do up time-sheet. Time-sheets suck.

  • #18069

    DeeK
    Participant

    do those waivers stand up in ireland?

    i know the majority of investment banks in the u.k.\usa want you to sign waivers [/quote:8ea8780c91]

    I dont think that they do stand up, though its not really my area of practice. Seems to be honoured more in the breach than otherwise though.

  • #18070

    Nooptical
    Participant

    Think I signed something like that. Option was to allow working overtime or every week do up time-sheet. Time-sheets suck.[/quote:8c2e552a8c]

    So you chose to waiver your rights just so you didn’t have to fill out a timesheet every week…..you lazy b*&A^SD :p

  • #18071

    omen
    Participant

    So you chose to waiver your rights just so you didn’t have to fill out a timesheet every week…..you lazy b*&A^SD [/quote:b203ed5398]

    Yeah, seemed a good deal to me.

  • #18382

    kyotokid
    Keymaster
  • #18385

    Nooptical
    Participant

    Excellent read Kyoto. Sums up my thoughts exactly. :)

  • #18695

    Dermy
    Participant
  • #18697

    kyotokid
    Keymaster

    Most people reckon its better to have overtime than royalties (EA might be the exception as their stuff sells the most).

    Atleast you are guarantee the overtime and dont have hang around for months and months afterwards just to pick up the check…if it ever comes….

    Electronic Arts has always maintained that it works well within the accepted norm of the games industry, with a bonus range from 5 to 30 percent of salaries.[/quote:4a9a7aca9d]

    Yeah, but your rich EA…you should set the example.

  • #18708

    omen
    Participant

    Overtime or bonuses and options.
    Does options include pension? EA shares would be worth getting….dunno if the overtime is a good deal.

  • #18709

    Nooptical
    Participant

    At least they are giving the option though…..some people would rather have a quick monetary reward(overtime pay) than a long term reward(stock options etc).

  • #18731

    gizmo
    Participant

    I’m sure many of you have read this already but…Clicky!

    I’d heard about this awhile ago and i heard it prompted EA to have a look at their “crunch time” practices…

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