awakenings

I thought it was quite insightful. In great to here from some industry icons, it was quite inspirational.
But i didnt like the fact that they kept playing on the fact that its SO HARD TO GET INTO THE INDUSTRY. Maybe it could have been a little more constructive, you know, talk about ways of changing this or maybe some more advice on how students who have an unbelieveable passion and drive, should go about getting into the industry when they finish college.

But overall it was a good conference, maybe useful tips and some interesting food for thought. I was however, a little dissapointed at the lack of displays in the foyer. :(

But well done to all involved, more of the same in the future would be great.

Paul

But i didnt like the fact that they kept playing on the fact that its SO HARD TO GET INTO THE INDUSTRY. Maybe it could have been a little more constructive, you know, talk about ways of changing this or maybe some more advice on how students who have an unbelieveable passion and drive, should go about getting into the industry when they finish college. [/quote:b97b136408]
I think that they were quite right on getting over how important it is to get into the industry. It must have been a good slap in the face to some kids who thought they’ll go through college and walk right into a job. Don’t get me wrong, I think that it was a positive slap in the face. They learnt how the industry is, a cold brutal place! ;)

Seriously though, if not before then everyone there who aspires to make it into the industry are aware just how hard it is. We don’t want a bunch of lads coming out shouting “Oh my god, I can’t wait to get paid to play games all day and think up great ideas and tell the programmers to make awesome graphics.”

I do agree with you about the rest, Paul. I would have liked a talk on breaking in, after all a lot of us there are students. There’s always next year!

It was a briliant show, congratulations to everyone that worked on putting it together.

I saw you around, Paul. Unfortunately we didn’t happen to bump into each other. Will be sure to see you at the next shindig. Glad you enjoyed it, Beans. Is that your real name?

I’m sure everyone went home learning something new.

Yea, I was there with my little stand (whos ideal was it to stick me next to Torc with their bump mapped, normal mapped, fantasticly well modelled demos? :D)

I would have liked to see more people who I could talk to about publishing and start-up investments (games related) – maybe next year

Anyway, it was good to stick a few faces to names :)

Seriously though, if not before then everyone there who aspires to make it into the industry are aware just how hard it is. We don’t want a bunch of lads coming out shouting “Oh my god, I can’t wait to get paid to play games all day and think up great ideas and tell the programmers to make awesome graphics.” [/quote:d54b97ee49]

I’ve got two conflicting thoughts on this. The first is that yes, it should be pointed out that its hard to get into the industry, and its not just as simple as saying, “I want to do games!”.
The second is that people say “Its hard to get into this industry, you know!” and they say it so damned much that once you actually do manage to get yourself a job you feel and in some cases, made to to feel that you’re not really worthy of this and you should feel privilaged to have this oppertunity. Thankfully I haven’t been made to feel like that, but I know others who have.
And in truth…its really just another job. Telling people that its so hard to get into could be detremental and turn some people off the idea.
At present it a job I really enjoy, but thats just a personal opinion.

Yea, I was there with my little stand (whos ideal was it to stick me next to Torc with their bump mapped, normal mapped, fantasticly well modelled demos?)

I would have liked to see more people who I could talk to about publishing and start-up investments (games related) – maybe next year

Anyway, it was good to stick a few faces to names :) [/quote:1662fc2c64]
I saw your stand, James. You were with some suit so I didn’t interrupt. It’s looking great. The screenshots really don’t do it justice, you need to get a demo out on the Net to show it off.

I’ve got two conflicting thoughts on this. The first is that yes, it should be pointed out that its hard to get into the industry, and its not just as simple as saying, “I want to do games!”.
The second is that people say “Its hard to get into this industry, you know!” and they say it so damned much that once you actually do manage to get yourself a job you feel and in some cases, made to to feel that you’re not really worthy of this and you should feel privilaged to have this oppertunity. Thankfully I haven’t been made to feel like that, but I know others who have.
And in truth…its really just another job. Telling people that its so hard to get into could be detremental and turn some people off the idea.
At present it a job I really enjoy, but thats just a personal opinion.[/quote:1662fc2c64]
I totally know what you mean, Damian. Several years ago I had extremely limited internet access so couldn’t really learn much. When I wrote to a developer to try to get their thoughts on how to break in they were severely harsh on pushing the point of how hard it is to actually get in. For a 15 year old that was really discouraging.

What we need is to find a balance, which may not actually be possible as there’s so many ways a student can react to the same thing. What would be great is to drum it into students that it is very hard to break in, yet let them know that if you persevere and learn the skills then you can well make it into your dream job and enjoy a life of long hours and low pay… ;)

they were severely harsh on pushing the point of how hard it is to actually get in.[/quote:b0db1e233f]
Is this not a good thing? It is hard, and the truth is always better then a lie. Should we not thin out the the folks that think it’s all tea and biscuits at an early stage and not leave them heading the wrong direction for both themselves and the industry?

Dave

I have to say that Omen has made 2 very good points in his post, and If I may I would like to take this oppertunity to tell you all how I feel about what Omen has said and what is horribly obvious about the industry.

Basically, Omen has said that some people are made to feel priviliged to have a job in this Industry.Which is utter rubbish, why should you feel privilged when you have spent the last 6 years in college trying your best to be creative and enthusiastic about an industry that shuns newcomers and gobbles up innovators like it’s a matter of life and death. I know some of you will dissagree with me but sometimes I just wanna say Fuck you! to all these eccentric prats who think that just because they were around at the birth of the industry that they know everything. No one ever listens to the average joe, or even people who clearly have the potential to do great things. Heck i’ve been in college for 5 years now from graphic Design through to Art and Game design and all I seem to notice about peole who seem to know a lot about my aims and goals is that they only want to listen to themselfs, never willing to let your visions to take their own path. It’s obvious to me that all this, this “It’s hard to get into the indusrty and even if you do you’ll probably be laid off due to the fact that only about .0000001% of companies make any money and the rest are all shunded to a corner with there ‘we tried but it obviously wasn’t good enough’ mutterings”. But in reality we all know that this is just a Job and to some extent a hobby. I love games, I love evreything about them. how their made, and I love the fact that some people just dont get it that I somethimes sit in my room for hours on end milling Covenant out of it with my assault rifle. But, and I say but because sometimes we all have to wake from our liitle fantasy world, This isn’t nor will it ever be a priviliged job and this will never be just for you and me, it is for everyone who takes an interset, it is for everyone who loves games. It’s for everyone who puts the effort in, and damn it, if this trend of negativeness continues then the industry does deserve to go down the toilet!

Just a quick edit. * obviously the above is opinionated, and realize that sometimes frustration gets the better of me, and I also realize that some if not most of you have been around alot longer than I and at that have probably made more contributions to the indusrty in Ireland, like this excellent site. So in retrospect(if it qualifies) you probably do know alot more than me. But I don’t know everything and nor do you so I think everyone’s ideas and aspirations such be admired and respected.

Kudos for you! :)

:D i loved meeting up with a few more of the gamesdev.ie crowd too :D plus the others in the fab crowd that were at the Tower for after conference drinks too..

those nicks and names are falling into place nicely now..

it’s no mean feat getting everyone together at the same time.

hats off to all those that had a hand in organising the event..

here’s to the next conference..

Indeed, great event!
Myself and Paul (Max Marshall) had a blast and left Derry with much to talk about. Very interesting and very motivating to see so many people attending this happening.

Also great to be able to associate more faces behind the forum handles…

Following are a few pictures taken at awakenings for you unfortunate ones who could not attend:

Tony Kelly – show master…!

Markus Maki – We were expecting a Max Payne type of entrance with back flips and front row massacre….

The Rikki Lake type Round table…

Graham Devine, more relaxed after his Golden years talk!.

how ya,

yeah awakenings rocked. was good to put a face to all the names. Everyone who was involved in organising should give themselves a good old pat on the back. Very well organised and the talks were very good indeed.

As regards the after conference activities, that also was a great laugh. Good to know everyone knows how to relax irish style(couple of pints :)).

Great weekend over all, any of ye find yereself down corcaigh give us a buzz. (i.e. jazz weekend 22nd-25th, the laziest 3 day weekend in the country)

i had a great time, the speakers were great, very intesting. didn’t expect all the free stuff!

i got really pissed in the pub later, sorry if i annoy anyone with my rantings about the dreamcast etc ;) (i think i did my most of my “makeing an ass of myself” with Graeme Devine and Jason Della Rocca :o )

it was great meet u guys!

There was free stuff??
No one mentioned free stuff…damn!

Thanks for the pics and stuff …good to find out what was going on and we had a spy present so hopefully a full report will go up on the front page soon – well of the formal activities anyway..you’ll have to keep posting here to find out about the after hours stuff!

Aphra.

The conference totally rocked.

The only negative thing I could say about it is that it’s going to be 12 months before the next one :)

Well, that and all of the sore heads the next morning lol

Mal

I think we can all safely say that Ireland’s first Game Developers Conference was a roaring success!

Even the hangovers were a breeze thanks to the concoction of strange chemicals in those strange green pint(s) some of us had. Kearny…I blame you for my newfound radioactive glow! :)

Congratulations again to all involved! & Here’s to Awakenings ’05 ;)

….The second is that people say “Its hard to get into this industry, you know!” and they say it so damned much that once you actually do manage to get yourself a job you feel and in some cases, made to to feel that you’re not really worthy of this and you should feel privilaged to have this oppertunity. Thankfully I haven’t been made to feel like that, but I know others who have.
And in truth…its really just another job. Telling people that its so hard to get into could be detremental and turn some people off the idea.
At present it a job I really enjoy, but thats just a personal opinion. [/quote:8112c43534]

Good stuff Damo, It you want to get into the industry – you will – it just means sacrafice.

Move country, lose touch with mates, lose your girlfriend, live in a crappy town

(I’m not bitter – honest :))

P.S. Come Hell or Highwayter I’ll be at the 05 event (Will it be called ‘awakenings’ since we are awake?)

Move country, lose touch with mates, lose your girlfriend, live in a crappy town [/quote:db4f5d8f2c]
Phew, 3 out of 4…guess I should count myself lucky ;)

jeez.. i’d forgotten about those green pints..

i don’t know how you kept em down..

too sweet they looked.

:D

how’s all your teeth ..

Lads, green pints of Fat Frogs were not a good idea, horrible things they were.

Anyway, I had a ball, great organisation Tony so pat yourself on the back :)

Nice to meet the usual crew again, there was a good turnout and plenty of new faces up there too, and I see that Patrick got stuck in chatting away to people too.

For those of you who didn’t make it, there was a huge focus on the business side of development, such as investment, managing your people and resources, marketing your product and a big focus on IP. Good to know that I’ll be in demand when I finish up college in may, and any other business heads on the forum might have plenty of hope too because it’s not just the techies who are needed.

Claire, any chance you could PM me your number and meet up for a pint, didn’t get to chat with you as much as I wanted to and you’re an interesting character.

Jamie

First off, thanks to everyone who made the trip up north last week and helped make the conference the overwhelming success it was. I’ve said more on the subject here: http://www.gamedevelopers.ie/community/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=6977#post6977

Before I respond to some of the excellent points made earlier in this thread, I’d just like to point out this particular Awakenings was aimed at the business side of things quite deliberately… who knows when we’ll have as many reps of the various funding bodies on the island all in one room again? Not to mention the numerous educators and aspiring teachers of tomorrow’s Irish game developers…

Paul Conway said:

But i didnt like the fact that they kept playing on the fact that its SO HARD TO GET INTO THE INDUSTRY. Maybe it could have been a little more constructive, you know, talk about ways of changing this or maybe some more advice on how students who have an unbelieveable passion and drive, should go about getting into the industry when they finish college.[/quote:76a186ac7a]

Firstly, I didn’t think that was the message being given out, and I can’t recall hearing it being said (but I did have other things on my mind that day, so who knows…) What I thought was being hammered home was where were all of thes estudents passing out of college going to work if we don’t have an indigenous development industry to employ them. And that was aimed squarely at the business people and funders in the audience…

Secondly, the message being thrown at the various colleges and unis hoping to set up game dev courses over the next year or two was that it is an industry of increasing specialisation and simply tacking on a graphics module to a pre-existing Software Engineering degree was not arming anyone for a career in the industry…

In my opinion, that was the message being communicated

Omen said:

The second is that people say “Its hard to get into this industry, you know!” and they say it so damned much that once you actually do manage to get yourself a job… you should feel privilaged to have this oppertunity[/quote:76a186ac7a]

This next bit is my own personal opinion and not an IGDA one (or Torc for that matter)…

Personally, while I understand that for many people working in the games industry is simply a job (which is fine), it is – for many of us – a privelege to do so for many reasons, not least among them that (a) there are so few dev companys in Ireland (b) there are or will soon be many more people graduating from game dev courses at third level then the mascent industry here can support, and (c) because applications to get on these courses are already over-subscribed by a factor of 4 or 5.

I’ve always believed that the secret to being happy was finding something I loved doing, do it well and have employers pay me money to do it (preferably huge, exorbitant sums ;)). If others would rather spend the vast majority of their adult lives programming databases or designing the best Tetra- Pak milk carton ever, then go for it…Personally, I’d rather work with (and employ) those who are passionate about what they do. And without getting too philosphical about the whole thing, how can you feel a sense of passion for what you do if you don’t feel fortunate to be given the opportunity to do it in the first place?

Which is not to say that working for a larger game dev as a tester or a widget programmer is the most inspiring and creative job in the world, but I think you can get what I mean from the above. Can you? Am I making ANY sense whatsoever?!!

Thats not quite the point I was making Tony.
I, like you, do feel happy and privileged to be working in this industry, doing something that I really enjoy. My point was that its wrong for employers to make new employees feel that they should be indebted to them and that working for them is privilege that you should be greatful for and show it.
Its not something I’ve experienced, but it is something thats out there…

My point was that its wrong for employers to make new employees feel that they should be indebted to them and that working for them is privilege that you should be greatful for and show it.[/quote:29857b143a] I agree with you, Omen…. Regardless, of whether one feels privileged or not, I don’t think it’s right for an employer to expect or demand it from anyone. In fact, I think it’s downright unethical

But you also said-

And in truth…its really just another job.[/quote:29857b143a] And that I don’t agree with, but that’s me…

Well i think from awakenings it did drive home a nice message(which has been sugar coated for a long time) games are challenging to make (probably why us hard core programmer want in, coz lets face it a database isnt the next wonder of the world fairly routine and well known territory by now, no offence to databases, i do them myself) but games are tougher, trying to make sure a set of troops move realistically, dont clutter or to create a shadow effect using a new techique so as to save a few cpu cycles etc..

And i think awakenings basically highlighted that if you want it, its there but dont be expecting people to hand you the job like some other industries, cause theres few of them(at mo) and most will step over there grandmothers to grab one, and talent is quite plentiful.

So guess the moral was simple “its there for the taking but you gotta work your arse off alot harder than the rest if you want in and stay in.”

Hi All,

Just a quick message to congratualte all the organisers of Awakenings – the event was a huge success and went without a hitch.

Well done everyone involved.

Mike.

But you also said-
quote:
And in truth…its really just another job.

And that I don’t agree with, but that’s me…[/quote:898cfa8fce]

But taken in context with what else I said, I mean you should never be made to feel privilaged to work for someone cos its just a job.

I fully agree that its a great job and can’t think of anything else I’d like to be doing career-wise.

ok, Omen… I see what you were saying – and i’m with you on that

I understood what Omen meant – but I can see how there was room for confusion though :)

There is no way that “…its really just another job.” can refer to most people I know.

I didn’t fully grasp that awakenings04 was more business\ funding orientated – thats very cool. In that regard I hope the money men (and women) paid attention.

sweet!

(P.s. omg! its Grifmike!!! he’s back!)

this Awakenings was business, education & funding focussed… next year’s will probably be half-business, half-development – that’s the plan so far, anyway

Hi Kyotokid,

Yep was MIA for most of the year – the world conspired to keep me firmly lodged in the twilight zone of – new baby – house move – and a truck load of work and some more work and then work.

So its been difficult (believe it or not) to actually get back on the boards!

At least I was able to turn up at the conference!

Cheers,
Mike.

How is it possible Mike is so young? If I have a game studio with wife and children at his age then I’d be over the moon. It was good to see him too, quite a surprise.

Yeah, great conference. Met a lot of new folks and drank much beer. I think Pete’s girlfriend Cara deserves a special mention for managing to cook up a cauldron of pasta and tomato soup at 5 in the morning for about 10 people.

Hey James, did you know your photo is in the Derry Journal along with me and Pete?

Anyway, congratulations again to all the organisers. Looking forward to next year already.

ok, Omen… I see what you were saying – and i’m with you on that[/quote:c5fdd2ec7b]
Phew, sorry about the confusion :)

Great to be there and meet a lot of posters and finally put faces to sigs. Thoroughly enjoyed the day (and the night), thanks to the organisers and everyone who travelled.

Oh and ta for all the positive feedback on the Instinct Engine!

Originally posted by Chris Gregan
Hey James, did you know your photo is in the Derry Journal along with me and Pete?[/quote:d3091b12cd]
Ha ha.. nope :)

Not being from that end of the country anyone know if I can get a hold of the Derry Journal in Belfast? Is it published daily or weekly??

James.

that derry journal photo defo should go as texture art in the next iteration of the engine for promotional purposes.Could put it on the can machines or the in game laptops like ye did with office photos.. immortalised in the game…. boohahhhhhhahahh!

Either that or a cheat option within the engine to view it. the developers of mortal kombat and may more did it. I think the people behind ms word had a set of characters you put in and press some button and up pops a picture the main development team of it. easter eggs in stuff are always well good.

It was the Sunday edition so probably hard to get your hands on it by now. Not to worry, we probably have it scanned in here somewhere, I’ll try and dig it out.

By the way, what was your friends name who worked on all the ODE stuff? I think you said he worked on ODE Ed or something?

His names Christophe Housten, hes based in Belgium..

He wrote ODEEd (from scratch :p)