Witch Course Is The Best so Far ?!?!

Hi Juris,

Your asking quite a broad question. The best course if often based on the student, and what they are hoping to get out of of their education.

If you are planning on a programming career (Game Development, as opposed to Game Design, which would be more in the Game Architecture/Systems Analysis domain) then you should look at Carlow and/or LYIT in Letterkenny. Both have a strong focus on Graphics Programming (OpenGL & DirectX), Game Programming (C/C++, STL, Algorithms, Design Patterns, etc.) as well as core units in Mathematics & Physics, with some 3D modelling & application design (to inform potential tools programmers).

If you can help further define what role you are hoping to achieve, (Engine, Gameplay, Physics, A.I., Graphics, etc.) the forum can help steer you in the best direction for you.

Of course, factors like PS2/PS3/PSP, XBox/XBox360, GameCube/Wii Dev Kits are a huge “draw-card” for third level universities, and I think Carlow are the best-equipped with respect to consoles dev kits.

Hope this helps.
B.

Hi People

Interesting topic. I like that same carlow IT course but am a bit skepitcal about it but the college has a high drop out. I am planing of doing computer science and specialise in AI or graphics. So if you have any info. of any college let me know.

Darragh wrote lots of good stuff[/quote:e90cac8c58]

Great post!

Darragh, great advice there. Good to see the folks on the courses themselves offering advice and feedback

Of course, factors like PS2/PS3/PSP, XBox/XBox360, GameCube/Wii Dev Kits are a huge “draw-card” for third level universities, and I think Carlow are the best-equipped with respect to consoles dev kits.[/quote:ba0c0caab2]

As far as I know we don’t have any console dev-kits, i’ve certainly never heard any mention of them (or indeed seen them) anyhow. The college did get some nice new Alienware machines for the 3rd years to do shader programming on however, and I do know for a fact that the third years are learning how to use XNA at the moment- which would be a big help for XBox 360 development. You have to remember that dev-kits are very expensive and many colleges would not be able to justify the cost of buying them just to support one course- particularily the colleges in this country which do not get half as much funding from the government as they should. [/quote:ba0c0caab2]
AFAIK, very few games dev courses (anywhere) have dev kits, and cost is not the only issue. The platform holders seem very reluctant to provide unis with dev kits (current ones anyway)

I like that same carlow IT course but am a bit skepitcal about it but the college has a high drop out.[/quote:ba0c0caab2]

That is true. Carlow IT does have quite a high drop out rate in general, and the games course is probably well above average when it comes to this. But you shouldn’t base your decision around what other people are doing! I think the problem with a lot of people who take up the course in Carlow is that they have a lot of misconceptions about what exactly is involved in making games. It isn’t really until they are half way through 1st year that they begin to realise that perhaps games development is not the career for them. I don’t think the high drop out rate is a reflection of the quality of the course itself.
[/quote:ba0c0caab2]Wouldn’t worry about the high drop out rate. As Darragh mentioned, many go into these courses with skewed expectations of what they will be doing, how hard it is, etc. In fact, many of the games dev courses in ireland and the UK AND Computer Science in general has very high drop out rates

drop out is high for all cs courses.
my class had over 200 in first year, only 80-90 in final year..

I started 1st year with close to 50 for my software development course and only 12 of us graduated this year

We had around 200 in first year about 21 made it to the degree level… and 4 of them were foreign students who were introduced during third year.

Why so many drop out rate its really scary you know!! Oh well so people just don’t do enough research i guess!!

smaller than Limerick or Cork but as it is now a commuter town for Dublin it is growing rapidly.

As far as I know Dion Ri is the main nightclub and I used to go to Carlow to discos (a few years ago now!) and that was when the town was a bit smaller. don’t know about cinemas – lots of shopping centres, pubs, bowling etc.

See http://www.carlowtown.com/

Aphra.

Carlow is great :D small yeh fun ok you will get to know everyone pritty fast. Lots of night clubs! About girls…..em ok i guess!! If you have a car great because its just 45min to dublin i think!!

smaller than Limerick or Cork but as it is now a commuter town for Dublin it is growing rapidly.

As far as I know Dion Ri is the main nightclub and I used to go to Carlow to discos (a few years ago now!) and that was when the town was a bit smaller. don’t know about cinemas – lots of shopping centres, pubs, bowling etc.

See http://www.carlowtown.com/

Aphra.[/quote:b7dac98636]

Oh yeah, carlow is definitely a buzzing town. :) Was out in the tower last thursday with the lads and and it was a right laugh i have to say. I don’t normally go out in carlow (cause i commute from wexford) but last thursday was great!! Plenty of extra-curricular activities to keep you entertained anyhow! :D

Just have to say thanks for a very informative thread.
Sometimes I just sit at my computer, wracking my brain, wondering whether a games development course is better or worse than doing a pure Computer Science course….

Damn this infernal puzzel!

Any one here from DIT or UCD here??

Sometimes I just sit at my computer, wracking my brain, wondering whether a games development course is better or worse than doing a pure Computer Science course…. [/quote:d3aac33962]
All the recommendations historically have indicated that a pure computer science course is the way to go, make no mistake about it. It gives you broader options, and a better chance to get into the games industry.

Dave

Hi, I’ve been following this Thread for some time, but haven’t posted.
Take

Any one here from DIT or UCD here??[/quote:aea617857d]
as my que to enter, so to speak.

I graduated from Computer Science in DIT (http://www.comp.dit.ie/dt228/index.html) last June, doing the games programming option in 4th year.
I found the module (which runs for 2 terms) to be a good introduction to games programming (covering the design an implementation of a simple 3D Engine, Game design and theory and Modding of the Far Cry engine)

The course has however changed now, so after a common first 2 years, a student can choose a stream to specialize when starting 3rd year (for more information see http://www.comp.dit.ie/dt228/structure.html)
One of the possible streams in Games Programming, so instead of being an option in 4th year like when I did it, it is now a full stream starting in 3rd year.

Regarding the Computer Science vs Games Programming degree debate, I think it depends on the person. If you are very sure that you want to go into the Games industry maybe a “pure” Games Programming degree would be better, as you would be more specialized. However as noted by previous poster, a Computer Science degree would leave you with far more options after you graduate.

If you are very sure that you want to go into the Games industry maybe a “pure” Games Programming degree would be better, as you would be more specialized. However as noted by previous poster, a Computer Science degree would leave you with far more options after you graduate.[/quote:a1bc420790]
Most evidence would suggest you having a greater chance of getting into the games industry with a cs degree rather than a games degree.

Dave

You probably right, I’m not an expert in the field. I would however think that this might change, as Games Programming Degrees are relatively new, and might need to “prove themselves” first.

For anyone interested into getting into the industry there is a book sample of “Break Into The Game Industry” by Ernest Adams, from McGraw-Hill at
http://www.gamedev.net/reference/business/features/bitgi/ which might be of interest.

Regarding the Computer Science vs Games Programming degree debate, I think it depends on the person. If you are very sure that you want to go into the Games industry maybe a “pure” Games Programming degree would be better, as you would be more specialized. However as noted by previous poster, a Computer Science degree would leave you with far more options after you graduate.[/quote:c9a47d43fa]

Cool, DIT is my first choice but instead of computer science i want to do the computing course because of the internship :D. What do you think of this course in terms of wanting to be a programmer or networker.

Glad to hear :D
I’m not sure what course you are referring to but the course I did (BSc in Computer Science) offers “all students the opportunity of Work Placement. This allows the student to spend six months working in an IT related company gaining valuable work experience.” so that might suit you.

I haven’t done courses in other colleges but I assume when it comes to programming it is relatively standard. In the DIT one the “first year students learn C programming, in second year, C++ programming and in third year, Java programming.” which should be a good base to learn other languages from (once you know one or two it usually gets easier to pick up more relatively quickly) You will probably find you pick up some other languages and technologies on the side too.

Regarding the Networking the course isn’t very hardware orientated, the basics are of course covered, but the course focuses more one the software side of networking. ie what protocols are used, error checking, security etc.

The course website (http://www.comp.dit.ie/dt228/) has a bit of additional information which might be useful.

Spuss,
I was referring to this course: http://www.comp.dit.ie/dt211/

Ah, I see :D Don’t know too much about that course, from what I can tell from the page it looks good though

hey all,

Im new here. Im planning on becoming a games programmer but first deciding to do Computer Science at UCC, and then move on to a games degree after finishing 4 years CS, does anyone know of such courses that can do like this? I don’t want to be going back to basics after a cs degree you know?

Thanks,

Kev.

Hi Kev,
I’m not an expert on the area, but it might be worth considering doing a good Computer Science degree, then doing a masters in a games related area, such as the ones listed at: http://www.gamedevelopers.ie/courses/index.php?cat=Postgraduate there are, as far as I know, a lot more computer games related masters in the UK.

Hi Kevin,
I wouldn’t advise you to do that.
Do your CS degree and try concentrate your projects on games if possible. If at the end of the 4 years you feel you would like some more games education, do a PgDip type thing, that way you only spend 1 extra year in uni. 8 years doing 2 degrees sound over the top. Doing the PgDip means you won’t be going back to basics too.

hey all,

Im new here. Im planning on becoming a games programmer but first deciding to do Computer Science at UCC, and then move on to a games degree after finishing 4 years CS, does anyone know of such courses that can do like this? I don’t want to be going back to basics after a cs degree you know?

Thanks,

Kev.[/quote:c9ed80080c]

Waste of time doing 2 degrees, its overkill. Year 1 and 2 of the games degree would be a piece of piss for you after a 4 year CS degree. do like omen recommended. 4 year cs degree (possibly with work experience), then do a pgdip or a msc in some related field.

*Something stirs in the darkness of the Destructo-cabin, Yes! Destructor!!! slinks out of the shadows to post once again!*

Hi everybody! Sorry I’ve been so quiet of late.
Good on you, Darragh! Great posts there, mate!

Annihilator, I’d say you would have no problem in at least the first year of our course (IT Carlow). It’s not unusual for people to transfer into the course in the second or third year. I’d nearly advise that you do that, with your background. Though I’d definitely advise speaking to as many people about the course as possible.

Kevin.Beecher, that’s also a very valid option for you, perhaps to transfer into 3rd after the completion of a CS degree. As I understand it, that ought to make you relatively irresistable to the the industry. (correct me if I’m wrong)

People who have done that have generally integrated very well into the class, and our course population is very cosmopolitan, so you shouldn’t be worried by either of those issues, if ever you were.

As for my own experience; I was one of the people who thought (lead on by the non-specific "development" title) that the course was perhaps more design or art-oriented than it is.

While the programming/maths-centric nature of the course came as a bit of a shock, I’m dealing with it. I’m repeating 2nd year at the moment, and ought to be able to squeeze through to 3rd year.

I won’t lie, I’m feeling a lot of pressure. I’d probably have to recommend to anyone who isn’t a natural in the areas of maths or programming *nods to Darragh* to at the very least brush up on them before joining the course, if not seeking education in them beforehand. Also, I’m not sure if it is yet, but Higher Level Leaving Cert Maths(which would have precluded me), preferably with applied maths or physics should be a requirement of this course.

As for applicability to the games industry, I think the course is, for the most part, pretty well designed and laid out. I do think that Java could be introduced earlier (it’s a module in 4th year – there isn’t a 4th year class yet!), to increase student’s employability in the Irish industry for work experience/summer job purposes – something that would also help to keep the coursework relevant during the summer break.

I’d be interested to hear from the LYIT crowd on how it’s all going up north, and to help you guys keep your options open.

I’ll alert Y2Kprawn and Bobelac to this thread aswell, to get you as much input as possible.

EDIT: Oh, forgot to mention, a new Programming & Databases lecturer started the other day, and if I’m not very much mistaken, he posts here as "daymo"… So, eh… Hi daymo!

it’s amazing what Google can tell you!