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I’ve been really hesitant to make this post, there have been so many of them, I know a lot of ye must be really sick of them, and the fact that everyone here has helped me quite a bit over the past two years..
I’m just a bit lost really.
I’m planning on becoming a programmer, that’s what I want to do..
While I feel {largely} confident that I should do a Computer Science Bsc instead of a games specific degree, because that is what practically everyone I’ve talked to and everything I’ve read has told me.Where to do it is the problem…
UL’s Computer Systems is the course I’ve been focused on, but recent glances at other colleges {UCD, Maynooth, Trinity} have caused me to wonder which exactly is the best degree…
I realise there is no simple answer to this, but wondering which course has enough Maths, or enough C++ is driving me bonkers.Any advice, thoughts and trolls would be appreciated,
thanks guys. -
I’ve been really hesitant to make this post, there have been so many of them, I know a lot of ye must be really sick of them, and the fact that everyone here has helped me quite a bit over the past two years..[/quote:c0f55ddb83]
Not at all. I think everyone here would be more than happy to offer advice, and you’re only doing right by asking for it. It’s a big decision to make so it’s always a good idea to get some second opinions about it.
Can’t really offer much advice to you myself because I’m a games design specific degree but there’s plenty of people on the boards who’ll have some good ideas.
Best of luck anyhow; hope you find the right course !
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… because I teach there, but I also did my diploma, degree, masters and am currently doing a PhD there also, but you should consider DIT also if you can study in Dublin. The BSc in Computer Science degree we offer has 4 streams (including a games programming one that I teach on) and work placement and its brilliant!
http://www.comp.dit.ie/dt228/
http://seriousgames.ie/mediawiki-1.6.10/index.php/Courses
http://www.comp.dit.ie/bduggan/Courses/Game%20Worlds/index.html
http://www.comp.dit.ie/bduggan/Courses/Game%20Middleware/index.htmlBryan
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Well if we are being impartial…how about the university that bred both Havok and Demonware, fed a lot of computer graduates into Torc Interactive and has arguably the best postgraduate course for getting you into the games industry :)
Trinity is your only man :)
Dave
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has arguably the best postgraduate course for getting you into the games industry :)
[/quote:8bfa6bb255]none of them are in the industry yet are they?? ;) I’ll reserve judgment until they graduate.
U.C.C. CS course has placement and has had at least 2 ppl at top games studios (Criterion and SEGA!) . Also overall CS employment rate into high earning computer jobs out of UCC is relatively high.
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none of them are in the industry yet are they?? ;)[/quote:dacaf8c846]
No, but some *left* the industry to do the course :) -
I’m currently in my final year doing a Bsc in Computer Science in DIT. I am doing the Games Programming stream and I can’t praise it enough. I highly recommmend it to everyone thinking of studying in Dublin.
Damian
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DIT is definately a good option and is very hands on.
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none of them are in the industry yet are they?? ;)[/quote:c12d388989]
No, but some *left* the industry to do the course :)[/quote:c12d388989]Some? you mean "one"..
lol
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Sure when you say trinity and comp sci…you’re not talking the new comp games course there?
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Personally I’d recommend a Computer Science / Software Engineering course. If you do well and have maths ability then apply to do the masters in Trinity. I’ve been working on a new course in CS with a Games option and added a stream in electronics. I’m amased at how many people think programming is just for the PC. They don’t seem to realise there is still a need for embedded system programmers (without those skills we wouldn’t have the console controllers like we have for the Wii). I’m not going to get into the whole fireman p!5%ing higher contests but look for a course with a hardware / software slant and your on a winner. Also look for a college that encourages and assists you in building a portfolio, essential for getting your foot in the door. :wink:
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Sure when you say trinity and comp sci…you’re not talking the new comp games course there?[/quote:6fede51b6f]
IET is the masters in trinity (Interactive entertainment technology). I was just mentioning that the students in it come from a wide range of degree courses (Different colleges). -
Where to do it is the problem…
UL’s Computer Systems is the course I’ve been focused on, but recent glances at other colleges {UCD, Maynooth, Trinity} have caused me to wonder which exactly is the best degree…
I realise there is no simple answer to this, but wondering which course has enough Maths, or enough C++ is driving me bonkers.[/quote:d1b48e057e]Hi,
I did comp sys in UL. I’m not in the games industry yet myself but i thought i’d give you my opinions on the course. I think your right in doing a general computer science course first. As some forummers have said before theres a good games MSc. in trinity now for those that do well in your general computer science degrees.
Comp sys in UL is a good course. Theres about 4-5 maths modules throughout the course. I think the main thing to say about the maths is that no computer science course is going to teach you maths specifically for games programming (unless they do some games electives i suppose).
Theres a computer graphics elective in 4th year or there was when i did it anyway. We had a great lecturer for it called Edward Dixon. A guy with a good knowledge and interest in the subject and it was the highlight of the coursework there for me.
They used to start off teaching C/C++ in first/second year but i think its mostly Java now as it is for the majority of computer science courses.
Edit: Without getting into the C++ versus Java debate i will say this. You need to learn how to program and although learning and mastering Java isn’t going to get you any jobs in games, it is no bad language to start off learning in. C++ is just a little step up, learning to take care of memory management yourself etc.
Its as good a course as any to do. With any of the courses there will be opportunity to do games related projects. Whatever course you choose, take advantage of these opportunities when they come up. For example, you could make a FPS for your final year project in UL.
Aim to do well, a 2.1 or a 1 if you can manage it and then you have the option of doing a MSc. in games afterwards or just to make your own demo reel and apply for jobs.
PJ
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well first off , i am half way into my 1st year of a computer science degree at dit , i am i am fairly impressed with the course , well in first year you wont really be doing anything to do with games ,
but i already had 2 years experienced from my hnd in ballyfermot ( brilliant course there as well, and personaly i think its best course to do straight from school as it give you experience in all espects of game develpment at 18 i was not sure what part i wanted to do . hmm still not fully sure at times).
Anyway back to computer sciene in DIT , i have to admit at times while doing certain subject which i know will never ever come in handy to games , i think maybe it would have been better to pick a games degree ( i do miss the 3d stuff , but i keep up with some in my spare time ) , but i know a degree in computer science will give me a much broader experience . plus i still speicalise in 3rd and 4th year in games .also something i already very impress with in dit is how they try to get all the students interested in the many comps there out there , they gave us presentions on , xna and imagine cup , also there was some talk on dare and dream build play and ……the list goes on . this stuff is important and always looks good on your c.v. and the experence you get will help you in the long run , i know i tried for dare last year , i am be trying my luck with robocode and xna challenge this year . i have the next 3 years to try more competitions i mean i could care less about winning on anything , the work you put in will always look great on your portfolio
so yea no matter what course you do , its really important you have stuff to show , models , levels , textures , code , protypes games or mods .
one more thing now time for a plug if you do come to DIT , make sure to join kevin street Gamesoc , i was one of the people who helped start it this year , and it covers everything from playing games to getting our members interesting in the game development and the industry. i know i should have a job in marketing lol.
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Wow, that’s quite alot of advice..
Thanks guys, I really appreciate it.I’ve filled it out the CAO for now, this is my temporary list.
1 – Computer Systems, UL
2 – Computer Science, Trinity
3 – Computer Science, DIT
4 – Computer Science {Bsc}, UCDI’m still really … unsure of what to do. *shrugs*
I’m going to the UCD Computer Science workshop on the 26th of January, maybe that’ll help…Thanks for everything guys :)
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Trinity is your only man :)
Dave[/quote:e419be4f68]
You’ll have to get yourself a fancy scarf, though.
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Just to enforce DIT’s position. I am currently a 4th year student specializing in games. For semester 1 we were given 3 core modules:
Games Middleware – which goes into physics, networking, quaternions
Game Worlds – which goes into newtonion physics and mathematics for positioning and orientating objects in games (Euler Angles, Dot product etc) Design Patterns and Asset Managment
Artificial Intelligence – Where we went into the philosophy behind AI, Informed and Uninformed searching, Prolog, Adversarial search (Games)
And 1 optional subject I choose as Graphics Programming which explained everything from scan line conversion to ray tracing. With practical labs done using OpenGL.
Game Worlds and Middleware being thought my Mr.Bryan Duggan who is an amazing lecturer with a real passion for games.
AI being thought by Dr. John Kelleher who was a fountain of knowledge and always had an answer for our questions and was able to explain them.
And Graphics thought by Dr. Brian MacNamee who made each lecture very interactive and challenged us with his labs.
All the while I am doing my final year project with Bryan Duggan as my supervisor to create an educational game.
It will be interesting to see how Semester 2 will pan out but my subjects will be Mobile Gaming, AI2, Image Processing and Game Behaviour
This is the first year the game stream has been run and will only get better as it progresses. So I say to you, if you want to learn relevant material and have lecturers who are interested in the same things you are and have all the time in the world to progress you further make DIT your choice.
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Just to enforce DIT’s position. I am currently a 4th year student specializing in games. For semester 1 we were given 3 core modules:
Games Middleware – which goes into physics, networking, quaternions
Game Worlds – which goes into newtonion physics and mathematics for positioning and orientating objects in games (Euler Angles, Dot product etc) Design Patterns and Asset Managment
Artificial Intelligence – Where we went into the philosophy behind AI, Informed and Uninformed searching, Prolog, Adversarial search (Games)
And 1 optional subject I choose as Graphics Programming which explained everything from scan line conversion to ray tracing. With practical labs done using OpenGL.
Game Worlds and Middleware being thought my Mr.Bryan Duggan who is an amazing lecturer with a real passion for games.
AI being thought by Dr. John Kelleher who was a fountain of knowledge and always had an answer for our questions and was able to explain them.
And Graphics thought by Dr. Brian MacNamee who made each lecture very interactive and challenged us with his labs.
All the while I am doing my final year project with Bryan Duggan as my supervisor to create an educational game.
It will be interesting to see how Semester 2 will pan out but my subjects will be Mobile Gaming, AI2, Image Processing and Game Behaviour
This is the first year the game stream has been run and will only get better as it progresses. So I say to you, if you want to learn relevant material and have lecturers who are interested in the same things you are and have all the time in the world to progress you further make DIT your choice.[/quote:36ef4faecd]
SqUEE if kiss arsing gets you marks you’ll have 100% by years end…
although it does sound pretty decent. 8)
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That DIT course sounds more and more appealing…
*rips out hair*Any impartial third-parties got any advice? Even where not to go…
Peter_b, the reason I have sidelined the UCC Computer Science course is because of the course weaknesses listen on this very site.
All my friends are going to UCC, and it’s not that I don’t like the college, I just thought from what I read here {http://www.gamedevelopers.ie/courses/viewcourse.php?article=15} that the course was considered one of the weaker ones.. -
*cue last minute UL vs Trinity panic*
I feel like the wrong choice will have we regretting it for life. -
*cue last minute UL vs Trinity panic*
I feel like the wrong choice will have we regretting it for life.[/quote:64c6cdc898]I wouldn’t worry too much about your choice of university. Both TCD and UL are reputable universities and I’m sure you’ve researched the courses to make sure they’re both up to scratch. Either way you’re going to get a solid foundation.
The real work is getting the most out of your college life by putting in 100% effort and learning as much as you can. With so much social madness around campus, it’s so easy to start slacking off. I’ve learnt that the key is to keep your eye on the goal and always stay focused on where you want your degree to lead you. I’m about to enter my final year and have every intention of firing on all cylinders to come out with a good 2.1 so I can get a good graduate job.
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Don’t worry about "regretting things for the rest of your life", you’ll never know anyway :). Just make the best of your time (life and study) at whatever college. There’s always a second chance if you think you’ve made a mistake and really give a damn. There’s a good phrase, "whats for you won’t pass you".
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Seriously,
If you are thinking about coming up to Dublin, you should check out our course in DIT. We are one of the few colleges that has consistently and significantly increased student numbers and first preferences (against the trend nationally). We have an excellent games stream, with lots of interesting and relevant stuff. We also have regular guest lecturers from industry (popcap, demonware etc) and have just placed 2 students with a significant Irish middleware company (with whom we are developing a strategic partnership). You can have a look at some of the students work this year here:
http://seriousgames.ie/mediawiki-1.6.10/index.php/Main_Page
http://seriousgames.ie/mediawiki-1.6.10/index.php/ProjectsBryan
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Seriously,
If you are thinking about coming up to Dublin, you should check out our course in DIT. We are one of the few colleges that has consistently and significantly increased student numbers and first preferences (against the trend nationally). We have an excellent games stream, with lots of interesting and relevant stuff. We also have regular guest lecturers from industry (popcap, demonware etc) and have just placed 2 students with a significant Irish middleware company (with whom we are developing a strategic partnership). You can have a look at some of the students work this year here:
http://seriousgames.ie/mediawiki-1.6.10/index.php/Main_Page
http://seriousgames.ie/mediawiki-1.6.10/index.php/ProjectsBryan[/quote:00630d18a9]
DIT is third on my CAO list, it’s a bit too late to change now, but thanks. If it turns out that I don’t like the course I’ll see about next. And then there’s the logical option of a masters in CS. -
Where you do your CS degree doesnt matter really. People get into games from all blends of degree. Important thing is just to learn programming really well (dont even touch making a game until your comfortable with C++). Its alot easier if you do it this way . IMHO I think people often start to try making games (im gonna make gears of war!!) and they cant write simple C++ programs, therefore their motivation is lost when they hit the first wall.
Then start making demos. My advice would be do it from scratch. Dont use 3rd party engines etc, because you’ll learn very little. i.e. a demo built using a pre-built engine wont get you a job (unless your demonstrating ai techniques or gameplay systems or networking you wrote from scratch and the graphics engine only facilitates showing off your coding skills). Similarly, if you want a graphics job you need to learn the hard stuff from scratch, a demo made in unreal\source unfortunately wont do it. Bizarre creations have great advice in this respect on their website.
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