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I am currently a few days off the deadline for the CAO, and thoroughly want to enter into the world of games development but am unsure of which courses to put down!!!
I am looking at1)a degree in games develpoment dkit
2)degree in computer science with games programming (dit)
3) carlow games dev.
4)and computer applcations (dcu)
I have been wreakin my head over the last few days for what to put as number 1, PLEASE could someone give me some advice ASAP
Cheers
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Have a look through the education forum, this topic has been discussed extensively…
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Degree in cs u.c.c is what i didnt and im a games developer now. 8)
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Computer science in dit :D i just sent in my cao form! But computing was my first choice the computer science.
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Dedicated games courses haven’t been around for long enough here to have made any contribution yet (there are NO graduates yet), so don’t let the industry doom and gloom fool you. While I’m not saying the the entrenched industrials are 100% wrong, they tend to take a bleak view of the younger courses because the output has not been guaged, and they are disinclined to give the benefit of the doubt.
You never know, in 4 year’s time, you could be running around with a CS degree, cursing all the Game Dev students mopping up the potential jobs.
Ok, not amazingly likely (at least not with the current industry attitude towards us), but the future ain’t writ in stone (cause if it is, ain’t life pointless?)
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You never know, in 4 year’s time, you could be running around with a CS degree, cursing all the Game Dev students mopping up the potential jobs.
Ok, not amazingly likely (at least not with the current industry attitude towards us), but the future ain’t writ in stone (cause if it is, ain’t life pointless?)[/quote:6baf651f42]
Extremely unlikely CS degrees rule :) can also get you another job if the industry dries up. Also the ones giving out the jobs have CS degrees so they’re not going to do themselves outta jobs :)
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/\ Exhibit A
:D lol.
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try ballyfermot lad ludo is the 1 year and cghnd is the 2 year
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hey,
Just want an advice! Is it worth doing a course because of internship? The course is DT211 Computing. -
First and foremost, if your going to be spending four years doing a course, make sure it’s one that you like! For the particular course you mention, you still have to do two years study before you have a chance of the internship.
Also, from the course brochure, it states that you only do two-days a week on your internship. While this would be good in that it’d give you an insight into commercial programming and hopefully industry best practices as well, I wonder what sort of work the host company would be giving you considering your going to be there for only 2 days every week!!
Also, while your in the work-place, what studies would you be missing out on if you were in the college full-time? Again, looking at the course brochure, there are some decent optional modules available if you go full-time which aren’t available to you if you go for the internship option.
What sort of programming job do you hope to get at the end of the course? By choosing the correct optional modules, you can clearly emphasis to a future employer that you are indeed interested in a particular area of programming.
But to answer your question..
Is it worth doing a course because of internship?
[/quote:7911ef4f15]
For that reason alone, No. The course content and your future goals are the most important. Choose wisely. -
Ah ok cheers. By the way anyone from carlow IT here doing the game development course?
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some very good advice being given out here.
One thing to add is that a lot of the CS/digital media/games dev courses are having a lot of trouble placing students for internships this year (I’m sure they have the same trouble most years but we’ve been trying to help them this year with little to no success so far). It’s all well and good ‘entrenched industrials’ (!!) like me advocating that colleges place students on internships to gain industry experience as part of their course, but making it a reality is far from easy
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One thing to add is that a lot of the CS/digital media/games dev courses are having a lot of trouble placing students for internships this year (I’m sure they have the same trouble most years but we’ve been trying to help them this year with little to no success so far). It’s all well and good ‘entrenched industrials’ (!!) like me advocating that colleges place students on internships to gain industry experience as part of their course, but making it a reality is far from easy[/quote:1c6f53b3a5]
This is one thing I’ve been saying since the start of courses appearing in Ireland. If finding placement in Ireland is this hard, how hard is finding full term employment. These courses are educating students ready to move abroad and not pay irish tax… -
This is one thing I’ve been saying since the start of courses appearing in Ireland. If finding placement in Ireland is this hard, how hard is finding full term employment. These courses are educating students ready to move abroad and not pay irish tax…[/quote:2ce7d9b0fb]I would argue that it is easier to get a job than it is to get work experience
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I would argue that it is easier to get a job than it is to get work experience[/quote:a958999bef]
Well obviously, but there are still 15+ courses now (?) and a handful of companies, if even that… -
I would argue that it is easier to get a job than it is to get work experience[/quote:6a4b247b10]
Well obviously, but there are still 15+ courses now (?) and a handful of companies, if even that…[/quote:6a4b247b10]Someone earlier (peter_b I think) that game courses (or rather general computer science course with some game specific options) are good outside the game field. I think in general this is probably true, though we’re going to have to be a little more careful (in academia) about how these courses are marketed, or we risk discrediting the good fundamental computing / computer science that is taught.
But probably the biggest issue is not lack of positions (yeah the game industry is small, but the media industry is larger, and the software industry is larger still). I think the biggest issues facing us today are
a) apathy (or the "gimme gimme" effect)
b) FUD (fear uncertainty doubt) associated with the computer industryb) first: since dotcom bust the industry has been faced with an understandable though entirely uninformed distrust by parents in particular. talk to any employer in the computer industry and the #1 concern is lack of good graduates / employee candidates. Keyword here is "good" btw. We need to get more kids excited by the computer industry and we need to get parents to trust the industry. Let’s face it, the information revolution is not going anywhere anytime soon. Companies may come and go but the fundamental demand for skills in computer is going nowhere but up. This is both an industry but also a society problem and cannot be addressed unilaterally…
a) then: I’m going to do some tarring with a big brush here, so apologies in advance. It’s been my experience that there’s been a cosmic shift in student attitude over the past 2 decades. We’ve gone from having a very tanglible sense of having to do well and achieve to get the best (or only) jobs (fuelled by recession etc.) to an expectation on the part of students that they are guaranteed a job just by showing up. I’ve seen a very significant downturn in independent work by students, they’re electing to enter competitions less frequently, they’re not contributing to open source projects, they’re doing the minimum to get by, playing the system and often displaying a self-destructive level of apathy about their future careers. OK, big brush strokes there, and clearly this does not apply to everyone – but boy does it apply to a lot. Does it take another recession to force us into digging deep again into our competitive natures?
So it sounds like I’ve just blamed parents and then students for all our problems. The final problem, and possibly the biggest barrier of all, is that the industry as a whole (the computer industry in its broadest sense) is not marketing itself effectively enough to the one resource that is its most vital resource – future employees. By industry I include academia by the way.
Our industry is a fundamental component of the information revolution (the most important event in human history since the industrial revolution).
Our industry is growing.
Our industry is crying out for great employees.
Our industry pays well.
Our industry skills are incredibly transferrable.
Our industry is intellectually challenging, interesting, and can be very cool.
Our industry is defining entirely new means of education and entertaining.I love the game industry, and will probably always be involved in it, but we’re just a small part of a bigger issue really. I don’t buy the "we shouldn’t eduate people who will not end up paying taxes in Ireland" argument. I think that’s short sighted. I’m not that concerned about the fact that big game companies are not setting up in Ireland or that perhaps we’ll never have a significant indigenous game industry – let’s face it these things are transient and the nature of the industry is changing day to day.
I’d prefer to think that we’re investing in talent and as a society we make sure our students are striving to be the best, and these folks will redefine the game industry or whatever industry, or create new industries.
Rambling rant over and asbestos suit on.
Steve -
Wow,
That i heavy. I most agree with you my friend even though am only in 6th year. :D -
always good to have a rant to read first thing in the morning..
I agree to a large extent with the direction of what Steve says but would like to add that
A) universities and the government to some extent are encouraging a service/client approach to education which seems to be encouraging an attitude of just gimme the notes and I don’t have to do any independent critical thinking, reading (esp in our area) or original thought.
B) students and parents are ignoring increasing research and funding opportunites for postgraduate computer/ICT research that provide alternative avenues of employment.
Us soft sciences people who have always had to deal wtih the ambiguities of no direct career path or clearly defined industry can only look on in a mixture of envy and disbelief.
Aphra.
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always good to have a rant to read first thing in the morning..[/quote:619f4b64af]
I’ve just had my coffee… feeling better now…
A) universities and the government to some extent are encouraging a service/client approach to education which seems to be encouraging an attitude of just gimme the notes and I don’t have to do any independent critical thinking, reading (esp in our area) or original thought.
[/quote:619f4b64af]Just wanted to add something here too. Totally agree – in one of the courses I teach (C++ for a large class of 200+ students), its somewhat inevitable that notes must be provided, full solutions to all tutorials/labs are essential, etc. and ultimately this can encourage a disengagement. I’ve tried to tackle this using moodle, forums, semi-interesting labs (they develop games actually :-) ), seminars, student presentations… I mean it’s a hard sell just to get folks to put down their papers and pay attention. What we’ve seen though, is that if you fail to do this, then results go down, students turn off completely, and no-one chooses computer science options later.
I remember previously there was a general feeling among academics that you should never give out course notes (for all the right reasons). You should present the lecture, students take notes in their own fashion, and then supplement the notes with library work. It just does not seem to work like that any more. I’d be pretty confident that a large proportion of students taking my courses do not own any books relating to the course and have never studied in the library to supplement the lectures. It’s become a continuation of secondary school. But there’s a significant hysterysis in that I think we’d have to roll it way back to the fundamentals and be prepared to take a few years of tough-love before we could recover, and I just don’t think we can afford to do this in today’s quick-fix climate.
Steve
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Now, I’ve just started my lecturing career, so I’m far from an education expert! Just a few opinions that I’ve formed so far.
I think the biggest issues facing us today are
a) apathy (or the "gimme gimme" effect)
b) FUD (fear uncertainty doubt) associated with the computer industry [/quote:f9891f5dbc]In response to part (a) there, especially. I think the key issue here is trying to tackle the problem at the beginning of the students third level career. In a way, students need to be educated about third level education! From the very beginning, it needs to be demonstrated that research is a completely viable means of learning.
Third level institutions are no longer the great bastions of knowledge they once were. I suppose there was a time when universities and colleges were the only place to gain expertise in a particular area. This is definitely no longer the case! Stick anything into that google toolbar of yours, and your have a massive quantify of info about any topic. It’s becoming a case of offloading your knowledge; you know longer need to know every bit of information exactly, you just need to know where to find it!
It then becomes a case of lecturers become learning facilitators. Pointing students in the right direction, guiding them through the work. I know that many may baulk at this however. Who, after all, wants to be standing up the front of the class not knowing the answer to a question a student has come across in their research?! But teachers should learn to embrace it, not fear it! A student knows something that a teacher doesn’t – fine! Explain it in detail for everyone, thanks!!
What I feel most strongly is that there needs to be a shift away from the client/server method of teaching, as Aphra put it. Not only is this hard for the students to work and learn from, it’s tough on the teacher to deliver in this way!
Do away with powerpoint, I cry…back in with the blackboard!
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I don’t buy the "we shouldn’t eduate people who will not end up paying taxes in Ireland" argument.[/quote:a709f83193]
Hmm…let me re-phrase…
I think we should be encouraging people to not leave the country, as happened in the early 90s(?) as the IT industry boomed. With so many courses with questionable content quality, surely it would be better to have less courses with a higher quality. The current situation can only lead to the lower quality graduate as Steve referred too. I am one of those that left the country, and currently I don’t really see myself coming back anytime soon unfortunately…
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