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Hey fuchsia. Great Idea. I would really like to see this Thread Take off.
Not sure if this counts as relivent to your topic but sure here ya go.
This a project i’ve been doing in my spare time, few min’s here and there when i have the time.
Hope you like it
Darren -
Hi,
While I think we are all keen to see images uploaded, if you are going to post them can you try keep them under 500 pixels wide so they dont wreck the layout of the boards. If they need to be wider then that, try posting a link rather then uploading them directly.
Cheers
Dave
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Hi Darren, nice work, did you know you can post your personal work on the gallery page and list your skills in the directory!!
http://www.gamedevelopers.ie/communityAs regards to the topic at hand, has anyone been blown away or horrified by 3d work recently in the game/film sector?
I know this is a broad subject but we have to begin somewhere!!!Fuchsia
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Welcome to the boards Darren. I’ve just seen the teaser for “Van Helsing” starring Hugh Jackman !See it here! and some of the CG stuff looks well dodgy, in particular the big guy on top of the building who throws the smaller guy off. I have learned the lesson though, that early internet teaser trailers are in no way indicative of the final quality of a film. A lot of people have criticised the 3D work in Ang Lee’s “The Hulk” movie. Personally I like it, but if you think its bad in the movie, you should have seen the early teasers, it looked really bad. I also remember a teaser for “The Matrix: Reloaded” (Skyclad shuffles nervously as I waffle about the Matrix again!!) where in the scene where the Agent jumps on the bonnet of the car and crumples it, you could actually see the bones of his rig protruding through his head and chest in certain frames!
Recently I was impressed by the 3D work in ROTK and Matrix Revolutions, in particular the swarms of sentinels in the battle for Zion. Also head over to http://www.apple.com and check out the trailer for “The Day After Tomorrow”. On the games front, Prince of Persia: Sands of Time pulled off some pretty impressive feats on PS2, and the animation is sublime. Max Payne 2 had some nice cinematic touches, Max himself was nicely modelled and textured, I’d love to know the polycount for his head!
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Going to go see Big Fish this week, I’m really looking forward to Burton’s remake of “Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory” starring Johnny Depp as the man himself.
About the Van Helsing teaser again, I can only imagine that Universal can decide to start generating hype when they want to, and can call for a teaser to be cut regardless of whether the FX shots have been completely finished. As CG advances, more often than not FX houses are having to work closer and closer to the date of the actual premiere of the film to get the shots finished. I’ll try and dig out the first Matrix Reloaded trailer and show you the difference between the early one and the finished version, I think I have The Hulk somewhere too. I know myself from cringing at some of the awful 3d work on ads over the past few months and knowing some of the people involved in their creation that its rarely a quality control problem, usually its a budget thing and/or a ridiculously tight deadline.
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:D Don’t forget the sound guys..
it adds a whole new dimension to the visual atmosphere you’ve created.
I think good sound.. and music.. (which is my talent i can bring to the pool) is so important..
i collect soundtracks to games.. films .. anything with a beat .. or not :D
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>>”I’m really looking forward to Burton’s remake of “Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory” starring Johnny Depp as the man himself”
– tell us more, Pete!!
good to see some activity on new topics… and a creative one at that!! all we need now is some postings about actual games (as opposed to their development, creative and otherwise) and we’re laughing ;)
p.s. hi to fitch and fuchsia – nice to see you posting
p.p.s. fuchsia, have to agree with Ian – the work shown on your site’s gorgeous
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Spot on about the sound Fitch, as my old 3D tutor used to say “always….” no “never” no, thats not it either, its basically that sound is 50% of animation!
For Idora, a little on Willy Wonka and Tim Burton’s next animated piece….
Tim Burton’s remake of Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory is said to surprise fans of the classic. This was kindof expected with Burton, he explains his reasons for taking on the project to Cindy Pearlman of Chicago Sun Times.
“Well, I don’t want to crush people’s childhood dreams, but the original film is sappy,” Burton says. “It’s sappy when it shouldn’t be sappy and it’s weird. Let’s just say it’s not one of my personal favorites. I’d rate ‘Chitty Chitty Bang Bang’ much higher.”
Burton says he’s wanted to do Willy Wonka for years. “I responded to the children’s book [Roald Dahl’s Charlie and the Chocolate Factory] because it respected that children can be adults, and I think adults forget that. There can be darkness and sort of foreboding. Very sinister things are very much a part of childhood. I like that sort of humor and emotion put together.”
Burton has cast his pal Johnny Depp as Willy Wonka. “I just like working with him. He’s always surprising and fun,” said Burton on Depp.
On “The Corpse Bride”…..
Director Tim Burton (Big Fish) recently talked about his next animation movie The Corpse Bride, which he’s producing.
When asked by AP if he won’t make a sequel to The Nightmare Before Christmas, which was about the collision of Halloween and Christmas: “What would it be … ‘Thanksgiving World’? Or they go kidnap Uncle Sam on the Fourth of July? That wouldn’t go over too good these days.”
The Corpse Bride which will be poking fun at death is made in the same animation style as The Nightmare Before Christmas, the story is based on an Eastern European folk tale about a man who mistakenly weds a dead body. Expect plenty of dark humor — Burton says it’s therapeutic to laugh at death instead of fearing it.
“Rather than make it this dark, unspoken thing — which is kind of how I grew up — I always liked the idea that it was more a celebration. It feels more positive, somehow, and more spiritual and right to me,” he said.
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Speaking earlier of the 3D work in ROTK, theres an article over on CG networks about it, see it here!
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I simply cannot wait to see the new Willy Wonka. I’m a big fan of the original, and the rest of Roald Dahl’s masterpieces.
Chitty Chitty Bang, HA!!!!!!! not a scratch on Willy Wonka:p
Yes i would definatly say they’ll do the Umpa Lunp’s in 3D.
I’d like that job… -
Pete, that sounds familur, what was his name?
Fitch, yeah sound and music is so important, also many great ideas come to me when listening to stuff like the Castlevania SOTN soundtrack.
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Emmet something…
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That would be Emmet Kilbride!
An excuse of a teacher! Anywho, i would agree that sound plays a major part in games. They play a huge part in immersing the player into the environment. I also believe that we have so far only seen about 40-50% of what sound is capable of doing to the overall atmostphere of the game which will hopefully change in the coming years with surround sound(Dolby 5.1) becoming very affordable.
Thats the thing with most games these days, they try very hard to make you feel as if you are actually “there”, some partially succeeding, nut all you have to do is look away from the monitor to spoil the whole experience. Imagine a game that makes you actually use your senses properly for example, you hear some footsteps coming from behind you (projected on the speaker positioned behind you in your room). Just a thought.
I know it sounds crazy but i heard on the radio yesterday that a piece of technology called the smellovision has been released. You connect it to your t.v and it projects a smell assosiated with whatever your watching. She also said it applies to video games. No joke! I havent a clue how it would work but it has been released. Im sure everyone will here about it soon enough.
The example they gave: “While watching a football match, you will be able to smell the grass from the field”. Could you imagine the smell of the toilets in Resident evil?!To finish up, ive seen people mention Prince of Persia: The Sands Of Time. For anyone who hasnt got a copy yet, i strongly recommend you do. It was an absolute pleasure to play. It was extremely well polished with fantastic animations, challenging and extremely addictive gameplay and a great story to boot.
Probably my favourite game for quite a number of years.
To not own this game is a crime! God i sound like a petty reviewer!Anyways, ive probably bored you all now with my rantings so cheerio!
Paul
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Careful now, Paul! Have you ever heard of augmented reality quake? You can find out more here http://wearables.unisa.edu.au/projects/ARQuake/www/
Basically you have a system consisting of a VR helmet, a digital compass, GPS positioner and a few other techy toys and it projects a game of quake onto the surroundings you actually see through your visor. The next step in immersiveness in games? Dunno but it seems to be a few years away yet.I agree with your Prince of Persia sentiments, but you’ll have to agree it was much too short. Heard of smellovision before, from what I remember its similar to a printer in that you have to replace “smell” cartridges every so often and then these are mixed together to make different smells. My mam used to go mad about the controller wires strewn all over the sitting room floor, don’t think she’d be too impressed with the stink of corpses emanating from under the TV!
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Its ok, he knows what im like at this stage! Nope, never heard of the reality quake game, ill check it out, but im talking about the fact that games need to change. The market has been pretty stagnent over the last year or two, with release upon release offering “Better Graphics” or “Improved A.I”. I think its time the developers tried new and innovative things. Eye Toy was to some extent intuitive but lets face it, that technology is old news. It was fun but hardly ground breaking.
I think developers need to go back to basics and look at what should be the the most important part of game development, gameplay. Everything else should be built around this keyword. Yes i agree, Prince of Persia did have its flaws, being a little short, maybe a lack of replayability, but overall it was a joy to play.
The gameplay mechanisims and overall playability of the game where spot on. Ubisoft have obviously put a huge amount of work into the actual gameplay.Hopefully we will see more releases like these in the future.
Just a question I have here by the way,
If any of you guys have played a MMORPG (Massive Multiplayer Online RPG), could you give your views on how you think they could be improved or what elements you would like to see in one? Im working on a project at the moment and would be a great help to here your opinions!
Cheers Guys,
Paul
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horrified by 3d work recently in the game/film sector?
The trailer for Troy where the the camera pans up from one ship up to the entire fleet. I started thinking “wow, that’s lots of ships!” But then it continued to pan up, and I started thinking “Wow, this is beginning to get silly” followed by “No, that’s a stupid number of ships” and finally “That trailer would have looked 100x better if the film’s budget had been halved…”
In short, completely overdone.On music in games…
This might be anathema to some, but after a small bit of play, I will always turn the music off in a game. My first reason for this is I much prefer melodic then beat oriented music, and game music tends more towards beat (think NIN in quake, all the games with layered music etc). Ill quite happily play a game with my own playlist running in the background and enjoy the game all the more. Second, when I play multiplayer/fps games (which is about 80-90% of the games I play), having background music can mean missing vital sound clues as to where other players are.MMORPG thoughts:
– core code stability and flexibility
– mods / admins with the ability to deal with problems
– allow skills to allow a far greater range of activities
– avoid the constantly respawning baddie syndrome (hard, but worthwhile)
– properly thought out opponent races (room. 23904587345 evil monsters. no
food, no beds, no toilets, no anything)
– multiple view perspectives? -
Back to the eye toy, I’d say it was very intuitive and pretty groundbreaking to boot. It didn’t rock my gaming world but anything that can drag my mother or any other computer game luddite to the screen and hold them there laughing themselves silly and actually enjoying it has to be given its dues. No 360s on the pad to pull off a spinning piledriver, no dual analog sticks, no complicated gameplay but fun gameplay all the same. Just you on the screen controlling the action with your moves.
I’m not a big player of MMORPGs but I am hopeful of the Matrix Online game coming out this year, that could turn me yet. It better make up for Enter the Matrix at least…
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i’ve been playing Rez on the PS2 recently, after finally managing to track down a copy, and i have to say it’s one of the most refreshing gaming experiences i’ve had in quite a while. it’s one of those games your mind keeps returning to even when you’re away from the console
ok – the game has it’s faults (what game doesn’t?), but the art and sound direction, the simplicity of the interface are superb.
the design concept is simple and elegant, and it’s – a neurological condition called ‘synasthaesia’, where an individual’s senses are mixed up, e.g. seeing sounds, smelling words, hearing colours, etc. – is unique for a game.
ian_hannigan has a review of it on his site at –
http://www.slowrocket.com/game/REZ_reviewed.htmlwhat i like about it:
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– the concept
– wireframe/retro vector-graphics
– the sparse, but effective and beaultifully designed levels
– the evolution and devloution of the player avatar
– the sound design integrated organically with the soundtrack and analog feedbackwhat i don’t like about it:
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– perversely, it’s simplicity is also perhaps it’s weakness in that the gameplay is very shallow by today’s standards -
2 oldies but goodies that I keep hearing about for the PS2, Rez and Ico.
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how many of you guys listen on 5.1 surround setups?
that’s if you listen at all :D … skyclad;)
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have always skimped on audio when upgrading in the past… not even sure what my current set-up is, but will check it out though
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Same as Idora, have the standard Dell issue 2 altec lansings with subwoofer for the PC, most of my upgrades have been graphics cards. Have a Dolby 5.1 dvd player but I’ve never gotten round to putting the consoles through it, the back of the telly is already a no-go area with wires!
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A proper surround set up really adds to the game.
A decent sub-woofer gets the most out of music and explosions etc. while the 5 or 7 surround speakers gave a great immersive experience.
The wquality of game audio these days is remarkable with audio designers picking up quite a bit of technique from their movie buddies.
Having said that, started looking at one of the Lort of The Rings games on X-Box at the weekend. It’s got A LOT of fmv taken directly from the film but the audio is not a patch on the DVD soundtrack – lacking resolution, detal, dynamics and impact.
Some way to go then. But if you’re on stereo speakers, do youself a favour and get a decent surround set-up – good for games and movies!
Peter
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wow Peter that looks a gorgeous set up.. is that a 23″ cinema display I see as well :D
I’m currently upgrading my studio to be a 5.1 setup.. and am looking forward to hours of fun.. My soundtracks NEED to get some surround mixing on them LOL
7.1 that’s the ultimate though.. you must have spent a fortune in monitors.. they look great and i’m sure they sound a stormer..
did you set that lot up yourself or get the room all tested by someone else..
you did it in the right room though.. those sloping walls are great for breaking up relections :D
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Hmm, time for a monster post about the following:
Rez
Ico
Frequencyand why I think they are pretty excellent.
But I’ll tackle them one by one. In separate posts.
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Hey Festoon,
have you played the follow up to Frequency, “Amplitude”? Its very addictive, well worth a go. Fitch, I’d say you’d like it. -
At the risk on continuing WILDLY off topic…..
7.1 that’s the ultimate though.. you must have spent a fortune in monitors.. they look great and i’m sure they sound a stormer..[/quote:0b915dae98]
Not really THAT expensive. Built it up over time. Spent the money on L/R/C and sub with cheaper side and rear surrounds.
Though now I’m getting into multi-channel audio and am considering an upgrade to get the same speakers all round – helps with balance, colouration etc. Also, my current speakers top out around 25kHz, would prefer more capable tweeters to deal with high resolution format upper ranges, harmonics etc.
(though I did have an interesting discussion with a PMC engineer once who said it was all nonsense and that the high-resoution discs were actually engineered and mastered on their speakers which also top out at 25kHz. Hmm)
On 7.1, I must say I did not notice a HUGE leap between 5.1 and 7.1 Having said that, I think my rears have poor placement and I need to experiment a little more.
did you set that lot up yourself or get the room all tested by someone else..[/quote:0b915dae98]
All my own work! My Pioneer 2011 amp has a really neat auto set up which does a great job and negates the need for sound pressure meters etc.
It really does beat a 14″ portable TV mono speaker for gaming!
Peter
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Hey Festoon,
have you played the follow up to Frequency, “Amplitude”? Its very addictive, well worth a go. Fitch, I’d say you’d like it. [/quote:f39f9c017e]Not yet. Only just saw it in the shops last weekend. Looking forward to getting my hands on it soon.
I’m still messing about on Mad Maestro in my spare time.
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I haven’t played the full version, but there was a demo on Official Playstation Mag a few months ago. Really enjoyed it.
On a different note, I was playing Lord of the Rings: Return of the King on the Xbox last night, what about those visuals? Excellent environments, pity the camera is completely on the rails. -
haven’t played ‘Frequency’ or ‘Amplitude’ but you’ve piqued my curiosity…
as for ROTK on the Xbox – the visuals are stunning, as are the production values overall. the camera is indeed ropey as a string vest. gameplay is a tad same-ish and even arcadey, but good fun nonetheless
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Thats it in a nutshell Tony, kept getting killed in the same spot with Aragorn on the way back from the collapsing caves, eventually got frustrated and said “feck this”, then realised I had really enjoyed the last 45 mins or so of play. Co-op games are the business!
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have you played ‘The Getaway’, Pete?
just wondered how you felt about the driving sections (huge chunk of the gameplay) given your ringing condemnation of ‘Enter the Matrix’ – which I actually quite enjoyed… except for the blasted driving bits which sucked
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Big Rez fan, at the conference Adams went on saying the game was ahead of it’s time! What with the extra large Rumble pack (Vibrator) later released for the game?
No Pc version… So I only played on friends Dreamcast and PS2…
It’s one of those games where the abstract vs. realistic issue comes up strong,
Veeery full immersion…
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Big Rez fan, at the conference Adams went on saying the game was ahead of it’s time! What with the extra large Rumble pack (Vibrator) later released for the game?
No Pc version… So I only played on friends Dreamcast and PS2…
It’s one of those games where the abstract vs. realistic issue comes up strong,
Veeery full immersion… [/quote:35460b4019]
Ah well. Lets not get carried away. Despite excellent visuals and music, it IS Space Harrier.
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The locking system was a nice touch, as it can be used for non-linear exploration of levels, and the 360 view change, even on set path, gave a certain degree of freedom, specially on boss levels.
I liked the Powerup/Transormation system.A mix of Panzer Dragoon without the RPG factor, and R-Type, still a breath of fresh air…
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Thats it in a nutshell Tony, kept getting killed in the same spot with Aragorn on the way back from the collapsing caves, eventually got frustrated and said “feck this”, then realised I had really enjoyed the last 45 mins or so of play. Co-op games are the business! [/quote:9837710574]
Agree completely on the camera, really frustrating when you have to switch from up to down to go in the same direction just because the camera pans, and sometimes the camera is positioned really well for taking in the general scene and appreciating the work that went into the visuals etc, but completely sucks from a gameplay perspective because you can’t see what you are doing!
I too get killed in the same place every time running out of the collapsing caves in the Paths of the Dead. Haven’t been back to it since I got so frustrated with not being able to see why I couldn’t go where I wanted.
I played through a good chunk of the game on PS2 in co-op mode over the weekend with a friend. Much, much better experience. Of course that could simply be because he had put in a lot of the grunt work and gotten Aragorn up to Level 10.
Actually, no. I am a big believer in co-op and multi-player, my best experiences playing games have been in a social setting. I guess that’s why we only develop multi-player mobile games, in fact I know that’s why, because I have a huge bias towards a shared experience.
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Yeah Tony, I played “The Getaway” when it came out the Christmas before last and was disappointed with it. I still admire its ambition and the facial animation tech and have high hopes for “The Getaway 2” but it wasn’t the uber-real GTA beater I was expecting. It was fun in places, I was able to drive from Trafalgar Square right out to East london past my old house!
My biggest problem with Enter the Matrix, is that I hate to see a great license wasted. Initially I really loved the combat and bullet time til repetition set in before the end of the first level. Follow the arrows, beat some guards, follow the arrows, beat some guards, cutscene etc. The driving sections were poorly executed and appeared tacked on I can’t say I enjoyed them at all
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Nice setup Meedja :). I built mine over about 10 years or so and then had to leave it behind when I moved to the states, now I get by on a little all in obe DVD Player/Surround decoder….but one day I’ll have my old baby back, damn i miss it, sounded better than any cinema I’ve ever been in.
Anyway. Don’t bother going higher with your speakers. If it bothers you get your ears tested and you’ll likely be somewhere between 16-20Khz max. Now you mentioned Harmonics and they do indeed play a part in the argument for having audio equipment that goes over our perception range but that is more so with the actual ADC/DAC part of the chain ie. the damage has been done by the time it reaches your speakers.
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Going back to an earlier post on the Van Helsing teaser, they showed a new version at the Superbowl yesterday and it has indeed been re-edited and cleaned up. You can see the new version here
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just came across an older post which raises some interesting points and thought it worth cross-posting again to seed the discussion:
http://www.gamedevelopers.ie/community/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=45
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any creatives out there with a bit of time on their hands…we are looking for some nice downloadable e-cards or gamedevelopers.ie promo cards, or Paddy’s Day cards which we can add to our community section…Jab has two up there already from last Christmas…
we’ll put a link to your work or site on them so it might be a nice way to self promote your work…
static, flash/3D whatever…
we are open to ideas as usual….
Aphra.
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here’s an excerpt from the thread mentioned in my last post – it broadens the scope of the discussion somewhat:-
“While this site covers all the technical aspects of game creation, there is little or no mention (esp. in the skills list) of the non-technical skills that make great games great.
Maybe a Topic to cover some of these essential skills?
Creative writing:
Storyline(s), plot & sub plots.
Leading the player through a story, making him hunger for each new chapter whilst giving the illusion that he is making all the decisions.Puzzle design:
Skill/Mental/Physical/Mystery (a la Crystal Maze)
Clever and original puzzles that give the player satisfaction in solving.Map architecture:
Designing linear worlds that feel wide open. Using light and textures to give the illusion of depth. Using objects to imply more curves and greater diversity in maps without hitting on the FPS count.Artwork:
Skinning & texturesYou only have to look at “Devastation” (don’t bother) to see how a state of the art engine with ragdoll physics etc can be completely wasted on a game with no storyline or artistic input of any kind.
Devastation Demo (177Mb):
http://www.actiontrip.com/files/demos/devastation.phtml“ -
Had a go on the Devastation demo when it was first released, awful stuff. nice ideas for topics too, I’d be well up for putting up some tuts on skinning/animation/modelling for real time apps if there was an interest of course….
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There are some nice Silent Hill 4 – The Room screenies over at http://www.gamespot.com/xbox/adventure/silenthill4theroom/screenindex.html?page=2 :eek:
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Nice to see writing and puzzles get a good mention. Sorry I’ve been lurking for ages, just been snowed under with other commitments, and trying to get my portfolio into shape. (It’s been like the car from Father Ted, you fix one bit…)
Defenitely like to kick around ideas for writing and other concept work, so hopefully I’ll be a bit more active now.
One point that’s worth raising is simply why some brilliantly plotted and art directed games are commercial failures? The likes of Thief and Grim Fandango come to mind. Or were these games only failures by the standards of Blizzard type sales expectations?
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One point that’s worth raising is simply why some brilliantly plotted and art directed games are commercial failures? The likes of Thief and Grim Fandango come to mind. Or were these games only failures by the standards of Blizzard type sales expectations?[/quote:9dd9a94bc6]
I didn’t think Thief was a failure was it?
Thief 3 is on the way soon….I guessing it must have sold a decent quantity to allow that to happen. -
Thief was an AAA title – usually considered the benchmark for a commercialy succesful game
The definition of a triple A title used to be 250,000 units or more (breakeven point) – not sure if this is still the case, as both higher production values and rising complexity of console development in particular result in longer dev cycles and rising costs.
Anyone shed any more light on this?
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On this note, I was talking to someone about this recently.
If there is AAA, is there an AA or even an A title? If so, what does it all actually mean?? -
have wondered about that myself… but have never come across any references to it anywhere – or heard anyone use those terms
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The definition of a triple A title used to be 250,000 units or more (breakeven point) – not sure if this is still the case, as both higher production values and rising complexity of console development in particular result in longer dev cycles and rising costs[/quote:38f06dc1da]
Wow Idora…..how creative…:)
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Interesting read!
I’ve never really considered that I have a very creative mind, but a mind that is quite technical, thus allowing me to understand computional problems in a logical manner and solve them. However, I think that I possess quite a few of the traits that you underlined above, so maybe I do actually have a creative mind. Cool! -
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Couldn’t agree more! The two go hand in hand and it would be an interesting way of encouraging input.
The only issue arises when people haven’t played a specific title. In my view it’s better to keep discussions at the genre level with a number of referenced titles as supporting examples.
Cheers,
Ian -
Hi Tony,
Yep I agree it would be interesting – and should stimulate some good conversation.
Mike.
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Um. Not sure if this is appropriate here, but… I have a design for a Half-Life mod which I think is quite creative– it’s not a game I’ve seen done before (though some have come close… Natural Selection & Manhunter come to mind). I’m looking for contributors to the mod (hopefully an all-Irish-based team, for easier communications) at the moment, but I’d appreciate a critique or two on my design document.
If you’re interested in helping, or just looking at the .doc (or the work I’ve done on the mod so far) mail me at dread_code@hotmail.com
My exams are just about to start, so if I seem a little distracted, you’ll know why…! =)
Thanks for reading,
–RoB
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Some of you might be interested in listening to Future Tense tonight, Tuesday, at 7.30pm on RTE Radio 1.
They will be discussing
downloading music…
the TunA project has developed a new piece of software that will allow you to wirelessly connect to the music a nearby user may be listening to. Developed by Media Lab Europe, the research partner to MIT Media Lab, TunA uses Wi-Fi to find nearby users and is being designed for mobile phones and various wireless devices.
and animation
they will be talking to Brown Bag’s Cathal Gaffney and Gollum’s animator Richie Gaffney, amongst others.
Aphra.
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So its a device that is capable of listening in on what other people are hearing on their mobile phone? Not looking forward to that one.
Dave
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