- This topic has 28 replies, 9 voices, and was last updated 18 years, 5 months ago by
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Hi…presently myself and another student who have just comlpeted the Ludo games Design course at BCFE, Dublin are looking for another three students that are at third level, to form a team in relation to entering the 2007 Dare to be Digital competion, high standards are expected…contact me at josephanimation@yahoo.ie
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Erm…a bit on the premature side of things aren’t you ?
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Im working in a traditional animation company also, so hey i have 2 plan my time ahead, just 2 get it out there 4 now, by the time September comes around things will be 2 hetic again.
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Erm…a bit on the premature side of things aren’t you ?[/quote:fe9ea5a4a0]not really… the 2007 competition launches in October this year
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But most students will be off for the summer and the last thing on their minds will be what they’re going to be doing next summer, let alone next october!
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But most students will be off for the summer and the last thing on their minds will be what they’re going to be doing next summer, let alone next october![/quote:c2b92c8eb3]fair point!
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I my opinion individuals who are contemplating entering the game development industry should be quite capable to plan ahead, the vast majority of game titles are in development 4 extensive periods of time,
so having this particalur attribute is a much sought after quaility, therefore it should be a part of the persons skill set. We are all quite aware how failing to plan ahead and manage time effectively within the industry ultimately leads to a poor standard of game title etc. -
Welcome Joseph :)
Damo…Those that fail to plan, plan to fail etc
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Exactly…at least some 1 gets my point…
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I think the point Omen is trying to convey is that you’re asking people to plan pretty far into the future for a competition where you have no guarantee that you’ll even make it through the Irish round. I’m currently planning on going back to do my Masters but between now and then I still intend to apply for jobs. My point being is that there are many people in similar situations that can’t guarantee whats going to happen between no and then.
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Actually I’ve been considering entering next year too. At the moment I have one other programmer and I’ll be seeing if I can get another one interested soon. I’ll have a chat with them over the next couple of weeks and get back to you Joseph.
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Yes thats fine..i myself am studing for a HND in Classical and CGI generated Animation at BCFE IN September so i will be quite capable to handle those aspects to a high standard, while my fellow student is studing the two yr HND in Games Development so if we can gather such a team i hold the opinion that are application as a group will be in with an excellent chance of winning..e-mail me at the addreass given previous at any time to discuss matters in more depth.
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You’re talking about computer students here, they have no notion of what planning is, I should know, I used to be one!
Let us know if you get a team, I betting you won’t find one until September at the earliest. -
Hi omen…im not disregaring the point you are making..i persoinaly am usure as to the usual grouping of student in terms of when they requset others to join them to enter such a competition, so to avoid ending up in a situation where i time it wrong and end up with a poor or perhaps no team at all, i have ajudicated upon the fact that i would post it ahead of time…im am not in any way in conflict with ur opion, it has ben dewley noted.
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:)
Not a problem. We usually have some postings on here about teams when it gets it first gets mentioned as we have some of the organisers on board.
I’m sorry, but I’m still of the opinion that Dare is a 10 week project where people don’t spend 6-12 months preparing for it and I find this is a touchy subject…
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Point takin Omen….any further advice would be greatly appreciated..
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If ya want any advice, feel free to ask, its been 3 years since I took part in Dare, but it can’t have changed that much :) My god…that was 3 years ago!
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Damian remembers when all this was fields.
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Yes time sure does fly..:) well any advice in realtion to forming a team and the particular problems which u encountered would be great, as far as i am aware a team must be made up of 5 students total and a maximum of 2 of these student can be from a further education center level of eduaction while the remaining three must be from third level? Is this correct in your opinion? Also what is the exact recomendations in realtion to the submitted piece, does it need to be a fully operational game prototype?
Again thanks 4 ur responces.. -
Yes time sure does fly..:) well any advice in realtion to forming a team and the particular problems which u encountered would be great, as far as i am aware a team must be made up of 5 students total and a maximum of 2 of these student can be from a further education center level of eduaction while the remaining three must be from third level? Is this correct in your opinion? Also what is the exact recomendations in realtion to the submitted piece, does it need to be a fully operational game prototype?
Again thanks 4 ur responces..[/quote:b0b2aa7d69]
A few Dare teams in the past have kept online diaries showing the good and bad times they had in Dundee. I can’t actually find any at the minute. I remember the Irish team from a couple of years back had one that was pretty informative.The Northern Ireland team last year was made up of students exclusively from a further and higher education college in Londonderry (NWIFHE), so I’d imagine you could go ahead and do the same if need be. Dublin has a good few universities, so you should be able to find someone if it comes down to it.
Not entirely sure on your last question. Do you mean during the actual competition? I would presume the finished product should be fully functional. That will most likely require cutting out a good bit as the final deadline approaches. Perhaps you could submit a demo, but I doubt it. Someone with more experience should be able to confirm it for you.
I say you can never start looking for team members too early. Worst case scenario is you lose a few and just have to replace them later on. Best case scenario is you develop a great rapport with your new team mates and can slowly work on the game as time goes on. Good luck and let us know how you get on. :D
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what they expect at the first round interviews is typically a strong concept.
That includes the business and marketing aspect, but the most points are awarded for the actually game concept..
So have your market potential sorted and your game design well documented, but most importantly have a unique and innovative game concept that most people would play as this is what gets the most marks…Presenting an actual demo at the first round interviews is typically a big no no.. but having the concept mocked up in 3d is encouraged.. i.e have a main model or two mocked up in max/maya ready to show the idea,it helps convey your idea a lot… its a bit of a grey area but thats my estimation of what they want..
As for what you develop during the ten weeks of the competition, typically thats a level or two of your game, i.e a demo…
Some teams have had finished demos at the start of the ten weeks and just not declared them at the first round interviews.. this is frowned upon by judges and fellow participants alike…
Dare as a competition is meant to be a learning process, thus having a finished demo allows little room for learning…
(this is opinion, from a past entrant)
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team must be made up of 5 students total and a maximum of 2 of these student can be from a further education center level of eduaction while the remaining three must be from third level?[/quote:001e63b106]
I think its 2 can have completed 3rd university within the past year possibly 2. University equals degree/diploma/masters/etc. When we did it, we had 4 doing the MSc in Abertay.I agree with a lot of what Barry said.
Some teams have had finished demos at the start of the ten weeks and just not declared them at the first round interviews.. this is frowned upon by judges and fellow participants alike… [/quote:001e63b106]
Arggh! That would really piss me off. Not only are the people wasting their own time but the competition’s too. The whole point of Dare isn’t about winning, its about gaining experience in a close to industry setting and getting first hand tutoring from industry specialists. If I was allowed to have a say in the process, I’d immediately disqualify anyone who has any sort of demo beforehand!The team make up will depend on the game you want to do. We were very naive and had 4 coders and an artist. Do NOT do this. You will need at least 2 artists, probably 3, depending on the game you want to do.
For you’re initial submission you’ll be submitting a game concept. This should include an overall view of what the completed game would be; the main characters, the style of play, different areas in which the game will take place, etc. There is probably a word limit, so you’ll have to be brief but very to the point to make sure your point gets across. You’ll be talking about your market, and you should tery get some figures to support your cuase here ( these are really hard to get, best bet is to find someone who has access to ChartTracker (which is hard) or do lots of googling for press releases on games ). If you can talk about a realistic method of getting the game to market, that’ll be a plus too. And honestly, in todays setting, I would push XBox Arcade. I don’t know the story with it, but it seems ideal for getting an indy product out. Play up your innovations in the game too. Don’t know if its changed, but the main prizes used to be “Marketability” and “Creativity and Innovation”, so keep that in mind.
You get through that phase and get to do an interview and you’ll want to show off the style of the game you want to make. Our interview contained 2d sketches of characters and environments and googled images to convey the ideas that we didn’t have time to get done.
At this stage you should be talking about the entire game as a concept but have tracked down the level or 2 that you want to actually create in the competition and focus a section of your talk on this. How much you actually produce it really going to depend on the game you’re making. -
Not only are the people wasting their own time but the competition’s too. The whole point of Dare isn’t about winning, its about gaining experience in a close to industry setting and getting first hand tutoring from industry specialists.[/quote:29877d65ac]
Let’s not get too idealistic here. For anyone who wants to get into the industry – Dare is about winning. Its about proving to every potential suitor who comes to give you advice or interview you that you are the top of the heap of people in the competition. It’s about showing that you are prepared to go above and beyond the call of duty – working on the project before, during and after just so you can get that edge over anyone who is foolish enough to show up unprepared on the first day.Just like anything in life, you need to climb up higher to be noticed above the crowd.
Dave
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Thanks for your info Ronny, its great to get an inside perspective on this..
yes hopefully i will be able 2 have more than 2 from BCFE, there ar quite a few students from the one year games design course wishing to enter…
yes i was speaking about the end product, it luks like possibly two levels that fully function seems achieveable in the time period allowed, thanks 2 every body that has replied to this post, ur views ar highly regarded. -
Sure Dave, everything is about winning, but actually just saying you took part in Dare is subtantial to the people who know what it is today.
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Sure Dave, everything is about winning, but actually just saying you took part in Dare is subtantial to the people who know what it is today.[/quote:4db2f1d84a]would agree 100% with that, Damian
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I’ve been a judge on Dare for the past 2 years and have written a detailed post elsewhere on this site on what is looked for in the team’s and their concepts
Re: the biz side of things – the latest ESA reports are always good for market segments/genre, etc. – http://www.theesa.com/
As Omen mentioned, unless you have access to the Charttrack (Europe) & NPDFunworld (N.America) POS data whic is pretty expensive at approx. $8 – 10k per year getting accurate sales figs a game (to compare against your own concept) is pretty tough. However, you can usually get a pretty good idea (if not exact figs) of the number of units shifted, whether it broke even, o rmade a loss, from the following sources: Gamasutra.com, Gamesindustry.biz, Mobilegamesindustry.biz, next-gen.biz, gamedaily.com
I’m sure there are more online sources, but these are the ones I have used in the past. Other fairly cheap sources of info are books ont he design and biz side of the industry. If nothing else, these books can give you an idea, for example, of how many units a typical mid-range PS2 action-adventure title would be expected to sell… and what demographic is expected to buy it, etc.
Might seem like overkill for an under grad competition, but bear in mind the following:
(a) the main aim of participating in the comp is to get a job in the industry; knowing as much as you can about that industry works is vital
(b)this is the kind of info publishers look for (as well as P&Ls, etc.) when you are submitting your own game
(c)the marketing/biz section of your submission is the most important part of it in both the regional and in the final heats – not least because it has TWICE the amount of points awarded to it than any other section, including the innovation of your game concept.In the three years I’ve been involved with the competition, this is the area almost every team falls down on
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rom the following sources: Gamautra.com, [/quote:17f87bd6b8]
Make that Gamasutra.com :)Wow, didn’t realise marketing was worth so much in the evaluation. We pitched a new online digital content site that was getting a lot of publicity back then, reckon that got us a few marks, showed we were realistic about not finding a publisher and knew about what was happening in the world :)
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rom the following sources: Gamautra.com, [/quote:f24dba0346]
Make that Gamasutra.com :)Wow, didn’t realise marketing was worth so much in the evaluation. We pitched a new online digital content site that was getting a lot of publicity back then, reckon that got us a few marks, showed we were realistic about not finding a publisher and knew about what was happening in the world :)[/quote:f24dba0346]fixed that, Omen – cheers
Its not just for marketing though – also for proposed biz model, distribution & route to market, research into genre, audience, sales, etc…. and generally the ability to back up some of the claims you may have made in your presentation with data or (at worst) some informed risk taking
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