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So I was reading part of Perlin, R (2011) Intern Nation: How to Earn Nothing and Learn Little in the Brave New Economy, http://www.amazon.com/Intern-Nation-Nothing-Little-Economy/dp/1844676862
It is about the rise of internships and how they have changed from being paid to being unpaid.
I know some game companies use internships but are they ever paid?
And how long should an internships go on for? Esp if unpaid?
Anyone any experiences good or bad…without necessarily naming names
Aphra
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Its all relative I suppose.
I started an internship this week after finishing the Pulse college course. i don’t get paid but I do get experience in art/animation and programming. For me it is the ideal follow up to the course and with a bit of luck by the end of the summer I may get a full time job out of it.
I believe they are the way to go for college students but for established professional looking for a job and being told that they can have an internship well that’s just a company looking for free work and i don’t agree with that.
I would say internships are like college, you should get back whatever you put into it most of the time.
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I’ve seen this from both ends.
I think a lot of companies would like to pay interns, but only a lucky few can. It is very expensive and most smaller businesses just can’t afford it. I’m told the cost of doing the paperwork for intern schemes like Job Bridge can make it impossible for small businesses to take the time out to do it.
If you are doing an unpaid intern ship I always think it is wise to leave after 2-3 months. If it continues any longer I’d start asking for food and transport expenses. After all, as an unpaid intern you can just leave, If they aren’t paying you there isn’t really an obligation to stay.
I know people who would really like to to take on and pay interns but can’t afford to pay a basic wage.
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I am all for experience and can see the value..
I just wonder what makes an internship different from work experience?
Internships used to have structured training built in and a basic wage.
This is not just in games…it is much wider..
[/quote:9c35c0d75f]I think this depends heavily in context. The intern and company need to be aligned on expectations and goals. In our case, we always have a goal that the internship contributes to the company in a tangible way i.e. we get more than just the value of getting to know the intern, we also get some contribution towards the company’s goals, however modest that may be. In return we pay the intern.
Our default internship is 3 months (designed mostly for undergraduates on summer hols), but we’ve had longer, and with more Universities integrating internships into their degree programs, I’d expect to see longer internships of up to 6 months becoming the norm (which is great).
From the company perspective we get the following from an internship:
– get to know potential future employees very well
– spread knowledge of the company and the opportunities we provide
– enhance the relationship with the associated university
– get some tangible contribution to the goals of the company
– get opportunity to explore some speculative, though non-core areas
– provide opportunity for existing team members to get experience with mentorshipI think the ideal internship provides a balance of the intern working on some work that has immediate value, but is perhaps capped in scope so that it’s achieveable in the timeframe of the internship, while also providing the opportunity to the intern to explore something more speculative and perhaps more in line with their interests, or relating to a dissertation topic that are or plan to work on. It’s not always possible, given that everyone’s busy, and there’s always a ton of stuff to do.
Steve
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There really is NO ethical and a very poor practical justification for not paying interns and it sets a horrible precedent. By not paying something companies potentially miss out on talented individuals that just simply can’t afford to put their hand in their pocket for transport, food or to lose part time/freelance work.
Even if you are an "indie" pay for the interns travel and lunch. You are much more likely to get someone dedicated and committed if you do and you are more likely to put them to productive use to recoup your investment. This should be considered the bare minimum.
On the ethical side of things, just imagine working for nothing. It is very demoralising. It is very, very hard to maintain commitment in that sort of situation especially when the odds of a job at the end are very slim. Over all I think this practise drives talented people away from the industry. Making games isn’t easy, requires talent, technical aptitude and intelligence and there are plenty of industries out there that are more than willing to pay people with those qualities. Games being "cool" or "art" isn’t that attractive after you’ve spent 6 months paying to work.
"I think a lot of companies would like to pay interns, but only a lucky few can. It is very expensive and most smaller businesses just can’t afford it. I’m told the cost of doing the paperwork for intern schemes like Job Bridge can make it impossible for small businesses to take the time out to do it. "
I’ve worked with the job bridge scheme and yeah there is a bit work involved. The process has a few bumps in it but it’s at most a day or two to set up and about an hour or two a month to maintain. In fact by far the biggest time sink in the whole process is deciding how you plan to deploy the intern. If you can’t afford that to get an extra man on deck for 40 hours a week for 6-9 months then you’re doing it wrong.
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We are a new indie start-up and are working with two interns that are
very talented we just cant pay them at the moment.so we came up with a way to compensate we give them a share
of the profits of each game that they work on.________________________________________________
Stephen
exGamers Studios -
I think sharing people’s experiences and the varying types of rewards and plans on offer is useful for people who are thinking about either taking or offering an internship.
Perhaps this is an area where an organisation like Games Ireland could have a constructive role in developing guidelines and managing expections.
There are variations I think between short term (1-3 month) internships taken during or just after a post secondary course and longer term (6 month-1 year) internships.
there are probably legal differences too – but that is not my area. Maybe internships fall outside normal employment regulations. Any legal egales know more?
Aphra
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There really is NO ethical and a very poor practical justification for not paying interns and it sets a horrible precedent. By not paying something companies potentially miss out on talented individuals that just simply can’t afford to put their hand in their pocket for transport, food or to lose part time/freelance work.
Even if you are an "indie" pay for the interns travel and lunch. You are much more likely to get someone dedicated and committed if you do and you are more likely to put them to productive use to recoup your investment. This should be considered the bare minimum.
On the ethical side of things, just imagine working for nothing. It is very demoralising. It is very, very hard to maintain commitment in that sort of situation especially when the odds of a job at the end are very slim. Over all I think this practise drives talented people away from the industry. Making games isn’t easy, requires talent, technical aptitude and intelligence and there are plenty of industries out there that are more than willing to pay people with those qualities. Games being "cool" or "art" isn’t that attractive after you’ve spent 6 months paying to work.
"I think a lot of companies would like to pay interns, but only a lucky few can. It is very expensive and most smaller businesses just can’t afford it. I’m told the cost of doing the paperwork for intern schemes like Job Bridge can make it impossible for small businesses to take the time out to do it. "
I’ve worked with the job bridge scheme and yeah there is a bit work involved. The process has a few bumps in it but it’s at most a day or two to set up and about an hour or two a month to maintain. In fact by far the biggest time sink in the whole process is deciding how you plan to deploy the intern. If you can’t afford that to get an extra man on deck for 40 hours a week for 6-9 months then you’re doing it wrong.[/quote:e4b326095a]
^ Thank you, sir. I’d love to get some kind of entry level position in the gaming industry and unpaid internships are not the way for me. (I’ve been out of college for a couple of years so it wouldn’t apply to me, but still) If I wanted to work in Dublin – but not find a place to rent while I’m there – I’d have to pay out of my pocket for bus travel and food, which are costly enough.
By my definition, work experience is merely doing random odd errands around the office, and doing it for free. An internship is different as it’s being trained on the job in a particular role – but not being paid for it hurts. These interns are college students/leavers who need experience and an idea of what they’re paid, not Transition Year students blindly filling a project book for grades.
Now this makes me wonder where the unemployed newbies like me fit in. Get hired as a runner?
tl;dr In the words of Frank Kelly Freas; there is no appreciation in art you get for free.
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I guess it depends on their previous training/education, age and experience.
this might help – http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/employment_rights_and_conditions/pay_and_employment/pay_inc_min_wage.html#l62fd2
Aphra
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