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A story about “killer” games. What do people on the forum think about the law banning games for these reasons?
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Games don’t kill people, guns kill people.
According to media reports, the teenager had been announcing acts of violence in Internet forms for several years. He was considered a gun freak who was interested in war games played in the forest and in violent computer games, among other things[/quote:eb6f15f8f0]
He was a gun freak, acts of violence, oh and he played games too…
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And see this news piece too. Interesting here the level within the EU Commission at which it is getting attention.
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On the subject, ye could do worse than have a look at this morning’s Metro (IE) front page :cry:
Much ‘redeeming’ PR left to be done, I’m afraid.
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And see this news piece too. Interesting here the level within the EU Commission at which it is getting attention.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/11/17/violent_reactions/[/quote:c69eee88a5]
And that was followed by this…
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/11/24/reding_said_to_frattini/ -
In Dicktenupjoan, one can find Dick, appropriately enough (triple entendre, I suppose :roll: )
Someone mod this clown out, please.
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In Dicktenupjoan, one can find Dick, appropriately enough (triple entendre, I suppose :roll: )
Someone mod this clown out, please.[/quote:f4bae7c7fa]Done!
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The main problem is that from a political point of view, games are still seen as a medium for kids. It seems hard for politicians to understand that the medium has mass appeal. In explaining this a common response is <i>but of course kids are going to get there hands on it</i>, which is true but they don’t mention that they have perhaps less access to these games than, lets say, a movie with adult situations or even the Sun’s page 3. Classifications in movies don’t end with live action, the same rules apply to animated features as well, allowing adult movies such as Team America general release. A blanket ban on games such as Rule of Rose or Bully is a double standard. When a movie is banned it causes uproar from people defending freedom of speech. Even Natural Born Killers eventually got a limited release in Ireland. It’s time that the industry and its followers took a meaningful stand to stop this or bring in a standard classification that exists with other visual mediums.
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It’s time that the industry and its followers took a meaningful stand to stop this or bring in a standard classification that exists with other visual mediums.[/quote:e9f170b3c6]
It is my understanding that the BBFC rates games in the UK, same as movies, VHS, DVds and CDs (CDs for explicit content). Can’t see why European PEGI would be deemed deficient, in that respect – just a matter of educating politcos (once they catch on the ‘not-only-kids-but-voters-too’ mass appeal of games, they might change the tune somewhat).
But [cynical mode on] even with all the educating that you might throw at them (by way fo taking this ‘meaningful stand’), don’t expect politicos to behave in any other way than bandwagon-jumping lemmings, where controversial games are concerned (or health or societal controversies somewhat/somehow associated with the industry). If it’s not games today, it’s going to be something else – anything to get a soundbite (that’s from experience at the coalface :wink: ) [cynical mode off]
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While this does make sense, when you think about it, I can see a problem with PEGI. BBFC can watch an entire movie in 90 odd minutes. For someone to play an entire game and find all the secret hidden bits could take 40+ hours on some games like GTA for instance. While I agree that this is the way forward, I think games companies probably need to take some responsibility to declare everything that is in there game at the point of submission. This may already happen, not totally sure about how submission works. Anyone found to mislead at this point should be punished.
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It’s a laudable idea, but with the renewed and growing impetus on player-created content for console (aka mods on PC), short of building a permanent content police for each and every game that provides the facility, responsibilising the publishers/developers further is asking them to hand over the beating stick, which in a business context will never happen – or else user-created content on consoles and PC will eventually be suffocated by publishers/developers because of the liability. Hot Coffee anyone? :wink:
The main difference between BBFC and PEGI, as I perceive it, lies in the coercive character of the first (because it’s a public institution, the decisions of which as to rating are expectedly enforced by retailers under pain of fines and whatnot) versus the informative-only character of the other (because it’s a private institution, no enforcement of PEGI-rating at retail because not ensconsed in laws or rules).
So perhaps a solution is to ‘institutionalise’ PEGI (and legislate accordingly at national level) from the european level down to each and every country which does not have a compatible public body and set of laws/rules such as the BBFC in UK.
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But its still not going to work. Think of how much time these people would need. Plus trying to find people who are like BBFC people who can rationalise good and bad games AND are competent game players, or alternatively, get BBFC type people to watch someone playing a game.
Before I left Rockstar I had to sign a thing to say that there was nothing in the game I was working on that I hadn’t declared to the powers that be, nor would I put any such thing in. All employees were obliged to sign this.The modding community has already been hit by this with companies being less than willing to help them due to the past events, and I reckon its probably going to die out, or at least become underground, unless games become regulated in some way that is recognised by someone who’s decision of a rating on a game actually means something.
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But its still not going to work. Think of how much time these people would need. Plus trying to find people who are like BBFC people who can rationalise good and bad games AND are competent game players, or alternatively, get BBFC type people to watch someone playing a game.[/quote:1a5d248b2a]
I really don’t think time (or ‘man-hours’) is the issue here. Think about the number of film releases, compared to the number of game releases in any given period: just as demanding. They’d have to expand, no doubt about that – but then, they’ve had to since the 50s or 60s or whenever there used to be 5 TV programs a day and 2 new films a month :wink:
Moreover, who said devcos have to submit a playable and the BBFC guys play through it? They may instead have to submit a gameplay reel which shows *say* all characters/NPCs in all possible textures, all possible animations/interastions (e.g. a slideshow) – i.e. enough for the BBFC to check that there isn’t a sheep-shagging animation, and how gory the chainsaw decapitation anim is.
At the end of the day, more media = more ratings to deliver = more resources needed, irrespective of the form. So, if games get to the stage where they require this expansion of [say in the UK, the BBFC’s] resources for appropriate ratings, for instance because they regularly make the news about (in)appropriateness of content for an audience, then they’ve already become mainstream and mass-market enough to warrant the same scrutiny as movies or TV. Self-fulfilling, QED.
Before I left Rockstar I had to sign a thing to say that there was nothing in the game I was working on that I hadn’t declared to the powers that be, nor would I put any such thing in. All employees were obliged to sign this. The modding community has already been hit by this with companies being less than willing to help them due to the past events, and I reckon its probably going to die out, or at least become underground, unless games become regulated in some way that is recognised by someone who’s decision of a rating on a game actually means something.[/quote:1a5d248b2a]
That’s exactly my point. [rewind][pause]
It’s a laudable idea, but with the renewed and growing impetus on player-created content for console (aka mods on PC), short of building a permanent content police for each and every game that provides the facility, responsibilising the publishers/developers further is asking them to hand over the beating stick. [/quote:1a5d248b2a][play]
Who are ‘the powers that be’ in your post? I take that to be the management, and the agreement’s to make sure there isn’t a HotCoffee Easter Egg burried in the latest Disney/Pixar game adaptation, which is going to spring up and assassinate the studio with bad PR.
As to the possibility of varying degrees of ‘censorship’ between varying bodies instead of a single ‘entity’, witness the “green blood” affair in Germany for absolute years, which has never really been an issue for the industry though, has it? Just a matter of a localisation variable.
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While this does make sense, when you think about it, I can see a problem with PEGI. BBFC can watch an entire movie in 90 odd minutes. For someone to play an entire game and find all the secret hidden bits could take 40+ hours on some games like GTA for instance. While I agree that this is the way forward, I think games companies probably need to take some responsibility to declare everything that is in there game at the point of submission. This may already happen, not totally sure about how submission works. Anyone found to mislead at this point should be punished.[/quote:9dd5fea5b3]for both PEGI and ESRB, developers have to submit a report outlining the content of what is in the game and justifying the rating they are aiming for. Not a perfect system, but works pretty well overall. Report published yesterday by Activision showed 80% of parents surveyed found the ratings system (ESRB, presumably) accurate and useful
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Thought it might be like that Tony, but wasn’t sure.
Report published yesterday by Activision showed 80% of parents surveyed found the ratings system (ESRB, presumably) accurate and useful[/quote:4152cd848e]
Problem is, the other 20% are the ones who make noise and sell their story to the Sun. -
Good article on this kind of thing:
http://www.pbs.org/kcts/videogamerevolution/impact/myths.html
Not sure how old it is, I just saw it the other day.
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Problem is, the other 20% are the ones who make noise and sell their story to the Sun.[/quote:5263e5e5ee]alas, that’s true
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Good article on this kind of thing:
http://www.pbs.org/kcts/videogamerevolution/impact/myths.html%5B/quote:ebad9cf561%5Dthanks for that, catbert. read it some time last year – but it’s a great overview
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