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With the recent news release on gamedevelopers.ie of the successful StarCave summer internship & 5 people from this group have been taken on full-time with StarCave, we are going to release here for the first time the SCS Launch video covering parts of the whole launch day, back in August 2005.
http://www.starcave.com/SCSlaunch/CG_Launch_V04_Xvid.avi
Keith
StarCaveFeature: http://www.gamedevelopers.ie/news/viewnews.php?article=231
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Nice stuff. really good to see an irish feel to the games industry..
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Eek. Lose the bit with the shades, please!!!
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hehe its all abit of fun 8)
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Aye its very Eddie Irvine. lol
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loved my 0.5 seconds cameo, cheers keith, thanks for thinking of the little people :D
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Okay, had a look at that, first time I’ve seen any work from you guys apart from screen-shots and I have to say, I didn’t see anything that wow-ed me. The camelot game looks like it needs a lot of polishing and the other 2 look like any other game. 14 Tribes looks the msot interesting but I suspect that it was simply a FMV and very irish perhaps making it appeal less universal.
What is it that makes you guys stand out from the crowd?? Unfortunatelly I didn’t see anything there that would make me want to play any of those games. Its a harsh thing to say, but this is an extremely harsh business.Don’t get me wrong, I’d like to see you guys do well and i’d like you to prove me wrong, but on what I just saw, well, unless you’ve got a damned strong marketing team, i just don’t see it.
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I cant d/l in work anymore for some reason (I can take a guess), so I’ll have to have a look later.
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Ouch…..
At least your being honest though.
I see your point though, it will be very hard for smaller companies to compete with the big boys, especially in the coming generation of consoles. Just look at something like Gears of War, the production values, graphics….the sheer scope of it is huge. -
I don’t see it even being realistic that someone new can compete on next gen due to the art resources required and the cost that this will incur.
But its nothing to do with that. Every game that aspires to sell in the kind of numbers required to make a profit need a unique selling point, and I couldn’t see one. -
Darwinia being a good example of using an innovative game idea to help carve out a slice of the revenue pie for your company.
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You can’t have everything :wink:
Camelot is aimed to tourists and Irish families as a gift, its also been polished up more but it is what it is.
Illumina version there was just a teaser trailer put togethere and does not represent the near ready release Beta currently plus its marketed as an Indie type game fitting inbetween small Indie games and much larger FPS type games.
Terra has moved to RE and is nothing compared to the teaser video shown there.
14 Tribes is a quick render to give somewhat of idea than just on paper.
All the trailers shown in the video was recorded on the big screen which lost abit of the quality graphics.
We are doing some things different and other things close enough to other games. How many crap games have you played that made shitloads of $$$ ! We don’t appeal to everyone but thanks for the feedback.
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Well you guys and gals seem dedicated and if all you say is true am sure we’ll all be impressed with what we get 8)
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Okay, had a look at that, first time I’ve seen any work from you guys apart from screen-shots and I have to say, I didn’t see anything that wow-ed me. The camelot game looks like it needs a lot of polishing and the other 2 look like any other game. 14 Tribes looks the msot interesting but I suspect that it was simply a FMV and very irish perhaps making it appeal less universal.
What is it that makes you guys stand out from the crowd?? Unfortunatelly I didn’t see anything there that would make me want to play any of those games. Its a harsh thing to say, but this is an extremely harsh business.Don’t get me wrong, I’d like to see you guys do well and i’d like you to prove me wrong, but on what I just saw, well, unless you’ve got a damned strong marketing team, i just don’t see it.[/quote:e7d3b7b08a]
wow.. easy on the compliments.. tribes i think looks good, i agree that some of the fps look similar to halo etc. but can that be a bad thing? few games re-invent a genre and dont have to be a success.
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wow.. easy on the compliments.. tribes i think looks good, i agree that some of the fps look similar to halo etc. but can that be a bad thing? few games re-invent a genre and dont have to be a success.[/quote:cec061f678]
I’m sorry, but “it looks like Halo” doesn’t do it for me. If it looks like Halo, guess what, I’d rather buy Halo and not something that tries to look like it.
And as Keith said Tribes is a render.I’m not going to throw out compliments for the sake of it. If you do that, it degrades the real compliments. I’ve seen what publishers like and what the don’t like. I’ve had work returned saying its great and its not good enough, its original, its not different enough. I’m not being nasty, I’m being a realist which is something I sometimes find a little lacking here. This is not an easy industry to start in, and I hope Keith takes the criticisms in the correct way ( which he seems to have ) and rather than taking them to heart, look at how to make things better.
I’m not an expert but I’ve seen my share and if you never get anyone saying you could improve on something, well then you’re in trouble when you hit the real world.
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We are doing some things different and other things close enough to other games. How many crap games have you played that made shitloads of $$$ ! We don’t appeal to everyone but thanks for the feedback.[/quote:618a2cc532]
Are you saying your games are crap ? :lol:
I agree, but I think the best way of making money from bad games is to spend lots of money on advertising. Look at our friends down at EA :)
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We are doing some things different and other things close enough to other games. How many crap games have you played that made shitloads of $$$ ! We don’t appeal to everyone but thanks for the feedback.[/quote:93df61ac91]
Are you saying your games are crap ? :lol:
I agree, but I think the best way of making money from bad games is to spend lots of money on advertising. Look at our friends down at EA :)[/quote:93df61ac91]
Soon to be your bosses at EA if the rumours are true.. ;-)
looks like you wont be able to resist the dark side after your years of ranting\resisting them..
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I’ve been under that shadow for nearly as long as I’ve been with Core. I’ll go where the grass is green, but my ethics and opinions won’t change. As long as I’m not in London… :)
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I’d never work or live in London. I dislike even transfering flights there.
Note to people: There are to many of you in London. -
To be fair the Terra and Illumia stuff look decent I do agree however that the Camelot stuff needs to polished up, especially to compete in todays marketplace (fast becoming tomorrows) or maybe the videos arent doing it justice? Im looking forward to seeing the latest Terra on Reality Engine and the latest Illumina aswell, they both kinda looked like just models sitting in a world/ Shoul be even more impressive when they get their “nextgen” on!
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I’ve been under that shadow for nearly as long as I’ve been with Core. I’ll go where the grass is green, but my ethics and opinions won’t change. As long as I’m not in London… :)[/quote:f9c17aef3c]
you wont need to move if ea buy ye, if the rumours have any truth.
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Legally I can’t comment on this, so I’ll not be responding to this stuff anymore, plus its on another thread. :)
Darkblood
I’d be interested to know if your games having publishing deals? If you can’t talk about that, thats cool too. -
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…the Torc interactive people seem to be hitting the nail on the head in terms of the stuff they are putting out seems to be well ables to stand up to current industry standards[/quote:9f3cebdb01]
Well, they do have Pete…
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I can’t believe you just referred to Ireland as part of “the British Isles” Ronny…. *shakes head in dismay* I’m not a “ra-ra-ra, we’re free!” person, but there’s people over here who actually feel that ireland is part of britain still.
Am I the only person who see’s the whole “irish theme in a game” as a potential problem rather than a potential sales point??? It really does little for me and for anyone from the rest of the world, I’m sure it’ll do even less. How many other games use their culture to sell? I can’t really think of any.
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Ireland IS part of the British Isles?
And I dont see any difficulty in getting the millions of ‘Irish’ Americans to chip in for a bit of their Fianna heritage. I’ve always liked the catchline “The true story of Irish Mythology…” for a game too.
Dave
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Countless games about Rome, Feudal Japan, Greek Mythology… never seemed to do them harm.
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Ancient Rome and Greece are on a completely different scale than acnicent ireland!
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…but are equal in the depth and richness of mythology and epic heroic legends.
Apparently Hollywood are jumping on to the Celtic Mythology bandwagon at the moment aswell
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…but are equal in the depth and richness of mythology and epic heroic legends.
Apparently Hollywood are jumping on to the Celtic Mythology bandwagon at the moment aswell[/quote:d6b1ac5cf0]
Exactly, Max. Just look at the Lord of the Rings. It’s a fantasy kingdom that has had huge success. Throw a few bells on Irish mythology and you’ve got something that could rival it.I can’t believe you just referred to Ireland as part of “the British Isles” Ronny…. *shakes head in dismay* I’m not a “ra-ra-ra, we’re free!” person, but there’s people over here who actually feel that ireland is part of britain still. [/quote:d6b1ac5cf0]
Would you prefer the Islands of the North Atlantic? Or perhaps the Anglo-Celtic Isles? I don’t think the British Isles is an offensive term. I’m sure there are some people in England that think of Ireland as being part of the ‘British Empire’, but a good few of my cousins hardly know that Northern Ireland is in the UK. Also, look at how many Americans think Ireland is united. It works both ways, ignorance is everywhere. Luckily most people take the higher ground and worry themselves about peoples lack of education. Just take pride in knowing that you know better. -
I don’t think the British Isles is an offensive term[/quote:e7ee8740b9]
It is to me. I shout at the TV when presenters make that mistake. However, I do have mental issues.
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I, also have metal tissues. :shock:
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Yup, and Bono, Bob Geldoff, Pearse Brosnan and those other Irish talents are not British. The term I would prefer is “Ireland and Britain” as they are 2 completely distinct entities :)
What are hollywood doing with celtic stuff? ( excuse my ignorance if its common knowledge )
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Yeah I don’t like it when they refer to our acting talent as being british. They used to always refer to Richard Harris as being British.
Also, I have a book by John Connelly(?) and it says on the back “the first British author to recieve….such and such award”………
That really gets my temper going! -
metal tissues? Could give you a nasty cut….
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It maybe (as Ronny said) something to do with the success of Lord of the Rings and the recent succes of period epics like Gladiator, Troy, King Arthur.
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Just been thinking, and to further illustrate my point. Was talking to people a while back about Britain and they, as english people, don’t really fully recognise wales and scotland ( especially wales though ) as real countries…they’re just part of britain. Expanding this, they get ireland in and suddenly you have a warpped mindset that can fill the nation.
Also, if Ireland is part of the British Isles, couldn’t it be said that Irish Mythology is not only irish culture, but it also belongs to British culture??
But enough of that :)
It maybe (as Ronny said) something to do with the success of Lord of the Rings and the recent succes of period epics like Gladiator, Troy, King Arthur. [/quote:4886f10e7e]
Roman, Greek and Arthurian stories have been on the silver screen for the past 50+ years and are universally known and understood. Irish legends are known by irish people… Slight difference. -
I didn’t know that a geographical term could cause any annoyance. Bono and the like are definately Irish. However, they live in the British Isles. That’s how I see it. There’s a difference between the country they live in and the land area that they are located in. Some in the Isle of Man wouldn’t take kindly to saying they’re British, but they would most likely accept the term ‘British Isles’. The isles are in the British sphere of influence. Being politically neutral, I don’t see the fuss. I don’t get worked up when I hear English people refer to Belfast as being part of a one nation Ireland. As they say – each to their own. I’m sure we could go on about this all day, but back to Starcave. :)
I still think that Irish mythology has potential. Using the Lord of the Rings again as an example. That hasn’t had a screen presence over the past 50 years. It was a new concept that took the world by storm. Irish mythology could interest a lot of people. A good story is still a good story.
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I didn’t know that a geographical term could cause any annoyance.[/quote:f3a3ace6ee]
Know you know :)
From now on correct term is “The Kingdom of Ireland and Superfluous Adjacent Islands” :D
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The isles are in the British sphere of influence[/quote:bb538dc32f]
Must. resist. urge. to. kill……. :P
Irish mythology is rich and varied. Great potential for movies, and/or games….
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Didn’t you know King Arthur was born in Dolphin’s Barn?
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Can’t believe you don’t think there’s good material in Irish Mythology Omen![/quote:0022e47688]
I didn’t say that. The stories and ideas within are good. Saying that because they are “Irish” and therefore worthy of mass appeal is where I have the problem. Ask a random nationality person what their opinion of ireland is. Chances are they’ll mention drink and maybe catholic, not Fionn and the Fianne, Cuchuallain. The impression I’m getting in the posts is that, “yeah irish themed game, fantastic!” If thats not what it is, clarity is my request for the future ( i’ll trade in world peace for it :) )Using the Lord of the Rings again as an example. That hasn’t had a screen presence over the past 50 years.[/quote:0022e47688]
It was a film and it has has been in printed form for over 50 years I think ( was ready to be published in 1950 ). It had world-wide fame before the film. Isn’t it up there with the bible for most produced book? -
At the end of the day, Irish Mythology is heroic Fantasy which is a very popular Genre in its self. In theory it would not be in anyway less popular as the backdrop to an action RPG (and any other game in the fantasy themed game) as any other story line or art directions previously taken.
Irish Mythology verses Warcraft or Everquest or Fable. Irish Mythology has as much and more depth written into it as these other Fantasy Genre titles. Ultimately if a good game was made using irish myths as its back bone, it would not have to be sold as an “OiRish” game. Instead it could be marketed as just a good fantasy game.
I don’t see using Irish legends as a problem, instead I see it as a really good and original skin for an RPG title.
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Irish mythology doesn’t have monsters. It has people. Fantasy people like monsters. And a bull isn’t a monster!
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Right lads we’re all wrong, Irish mythology wouldnt make a good game/film and Omen is right.
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Yes it does have monsters, I recall a tale about Fionn or someone having to pierce his forehead with his own spear to stay awake after a sleeping spell was put on him and his buddies. He stayed awake and slayed some beastie that had come to kill them all.
Anyway, Gladiator had no monsters, neither did Troy and I think thats the direction that most folks are talking about taking with this, an epic tale of battles between fearsome warriors
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No, Troy just had desendents of the gods!
And Rome films / games are based on historical fact not mythology!!!!
lk_ its not about getting along, this is a forum where you voice your opinion. This leads to discussions :)
Pete…don’t know that story…didn’t hear it in school :(
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Some of the ancient Irish heroes were descended from the Fir Bolg and the like, a God like race of giants
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Balor of the Evil eye…big end of level floating eye bad guy.
Giants…Giants causeway
Sidhe / Tuatha De danann – Elves / Fairies equivalent.
Fomori – black skinned beserker monsters
Plenty of animal monsters (dogs, boars, crows etc)Plus witches, geases curses, foreign mercenaries, gods etc – enough there for a game on its own.
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there are a few monsters, what about the Balor and the femorians? Crom Cruach the worm God? the giant Goll who tried to slay Cu Chulainn? all of these can be interpreted as monsters, and wasn’t the character Lugh the son of a god.
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No, Troy just had desendents of the gods![/quote:c4cdf8ac2d]
Yeah, in The Iliad the Gods played a major role in the story, taking sides in the battles and fighting side by side with the warriors. But in the film this wasn’t used at all, the closest we came to it was a hint that Achilles was decended from the Gods. Plus they made Patroclus Achilles cousin, when he was actually his gay lover. They also killed Menelaus and Agamemnon which again goes against the story.
I’m not really complaining, I actually liked the movie, but it could have been so much better. Although The Odyssey would make a far better movie in my opinion….if anyone had the courage to make it true to the original poems.A film about Brian Boru also has great potential. It was mooted(ahh….I missed that word) a few years back I think……but nothing since. Shame.
Anyway, getting back to the discussion. Irish mythology has such a variety of characters – fearsome warriors, witches, faeries, beasts, giants…..the list goes on. And the stories are fantastic. Perfect material for a fantasy RPG as Max said.
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I’m open to opinion, nobody made a good enough point to sway it.
I didn’t realise there were lots of monster, so thats a plus.The fact that you can talk about it as The Iliad jsut shows how well known it is. All of these big names came from a huge background.
Rome – historical fact thats been used in many formats for oh so many years
Greek – greats books that have fame through-out the world
LOTR – huge fame from book format
WOW – Several game iterations that built the popularity.It might work, really, it just might. But don’t think jsut because its got a really good story and backgournd that it will :)
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The fact that you can talk about it as The Iliad jsut shows how well known it is.[/quote:05c8808eb7]
Not really, I have read both The Iliad and The Odyssey, but I would say most people of gaming age would be more familar with Warcraft or Dungeon Siege then with Homers The Iliad & The Odyssey or Virgils The Aeneid, which all contain themes, characters and stories that have been used in many movies and games.
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Omen is right. There is a huge difference between something being interesting and it being easily saleable. LotR was a very well known book before it was a film. Even people who had never read it new what it was. Mass market concepts like that are easy to sell exactly because people are already familiar with the concept. Another important point to remember is that LotR took time to establish itself as a classic (as have many other concepts we now consider to be such).
Concepts are mass market because they have passed into the collective conciousness. They already have a position in the end users mind which they can use to decide if they want to buy (and which you can use to sell). Motor racing, football, WWII, Harry Potter, Nintendo, Lara Croft, King Arthur… these are mass market concepts.
King Arthur is an excellent example of the specifics of myths. The Arthurian legends are known globally. Robin Hood is also known globally (although maybe to a lesser degree) but how many Americans or Japanese could say who Beowulf is or name a single Irish legend? That doesn’t make them uninteresting, just harder to sell. Before someone buys something they need to decide to buy it and for that they need to have an idea what it is. The idea may be right or wrong but they need an idea – it needs a position in their mind.
Ireland’s current position (thanks to the Tourist board and the news media) is friendly, green, guiness, orange, the troubles. Selling a game based on Irish myths will require you to spend more on marketing, or work a lot smarter, because you first need to tell people that Irish myths even exist before they can decide to buy a game based on them.
On a similar note you need to focus on the elevator pitch for each of your games. The video had example of both good and bad EPs.
14 Tribes – “The Lord of the Rings, Irish version”
Its good because it plants a firm idea in my mind.Illumina – “Massive multi player all out war, basically. It’s a fun game, go play it”
Its bad. The language is weak, it makes unsubstatiated claims of quality and it tells me nothing about the actual game other than that it is a MMP war game, of which there are already a lot. -
Good point. Personally I don’t want an “all out war game” to be tagged as “fun”. I want it to be gritty, tough, loud, bloody, scary and tense. Of course, the game has to be enjoyable, but seeing a wargame described as “fun” just puts me off for some reason.
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Not really, I have read both The Iliad and The Odyssey, but I would say most people of gaming age would be more familar with Warcraft or Dungeon Siege then with Homers The Iliad & The Odyssey or Virgils The Aeneid, which all contain themes, characters and stories that have been used in many movies and games.[/quote:8906d7b2bf]
Just point them to “O Brother, Where Art Thou” Noopt!
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Thanks Obscure for putting my point in a far more elequant manner than I managed.
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Thanks Obscure for putting my point in a far more elequant manner than I managed.[/quote:f5c7588b24] I simply reviewed the product you were selling and came up with the optimum marketing position with which to sell it ;)
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if i may be so bold as to summarise the debate so far.
most people agree that there is more than enough depth in irish myths and legends to make a deep and involving game with loads of potential.
still unsure on weather the game will appeal to a wide enough market to be a success and this will be mainly determined by the marketing
please feel free of correct me if i’m being too general.
FYI although i work at starcave i’m not involved in the 14 tribes stuff so my opinions on it are just the rambellings of a mad man
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Your summary seems pretty spot on to me.
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Great Dillon, now people won’t have to read through all our posts and they can take the lazy way out…..thanks a bunch….PAL! :P
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Seem to have pretty much hit the mark
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Points not directed at 14 Tribes, just that general topic.
Additional on the summary. People take offence as Ireland being referred to as Britain :)
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Additional on the summary. People take offence as Ireland being referred to as Britain :)[/quote:ddfd16e938]
Hear hear, probably the most important thing to come out of this thread
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i had a feeling i was forgetting something important
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Additional on the summary. People take offence as Ireland being referred to as Britain :)[/quote:abcf086127]
LOL! I love Ivan’s idea for a name. Maybe someone should put that forward as a new proposal. I think in the future I’ll stick to saying the UK and Ireland. :)As for Irish mythology in games… maybe it’s not something that will rack up worldwide sales in the near future, but I’d definately encourage mod makers to use the concept. You can be as creative as you want without worrying about sales.
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Maybe someone should put that forward as a new proposal. I think in the future I’ll stick to saying the UK and Ireland. [/quote:86c0039d61]
Take a leaf outof MTVs book, I mean MTV UK and Ireland
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I think in the future I’ll stick to saying the UK and Ireland :)[/quote:ec5216761a]
It’s one thing getting irked about being mistaken for a nationality that you don’t possess, it’s another entirely to have catfights over the use of a phrase describing a geographical entity simply because there is a reference to the dominant political/economic force within that entity.England is a country, like Scotland and Wales.
Britain is the land mass consisting of England, Scotland and Wales.
The United Kingdom (…of Great Britain and Northern Ireland) is England, scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland (+fecky little islands)The “British Isles” is the region containing the land masses of Britain, Ireland and other small islands. It’s not a political statement, its simply a term used to describe a location based on the dominant characteristics of that place.
Dave
(about to throw a strop because he lives in a city named after a muddy pool of water, and works in a place where the stones dont reflect light well) -
Can we jus call Ireland *Eire* the little islands… well the little Islands England is England. And Eire makes Ireland sound soooo much better, gives it that Irish feel :D .
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Many Irish people, as well as some Scottish, Welsh and Cornish nationalists, find the term British Isles proprietorial and unacceptable as being inconsistent with the modern meaning of the word British, and, as such, offensive. However, Unionists in Northern Ireland attach great importance to their ‘British’ identity.
Hostility to the term British Isles has often been caused by its misinterpretation; this was exemplified by an embarrassing and controversial faux pas by the then American First Lady Nancy Reagan during an Irish visit. The confusion caused by the term was also highlighted during a stop-over visit to the Republic of Ireland by then Soviet Union leader Mikhail Gorbachev, when he indicated that he presumed Ireland’s head of state was Queen Elizabeth II, given that she was the British Queen and his officials said that Ireland was a part of the British Isles.
The term British Isles is no longer used in Irish state documents, has been abandoned in schoolbooks in the Republic of Ireland and is being phased out of textbooks4. Its usage is also decreasing in official British state documents, out of sensitivity to the concerns of some Irish, Scottish and Welsh people and the evolving geo-political relationships.[/quote:0828f512fc]
teh win!1!
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heheh…….
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Nice work on the video! It’s always enjoyable to get an inside sneak peek into another Irish game development company!
Best of luck with all your future projects…
Mal
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