Which programming language ??

[Anonymous]

hello all,
im back with more questions for you generous people,
im a complete beginner, so if one of you’s could point me in the right direction I would be very thankful. I am looking for the best language to learn to start off in programming (games). Also, if you could recommend a free software that would be great.

cheers

[Anonymous]

Something like Flash or DxStudio are a nice place to start as you get to see results pretty fast and they aren’t too taxing. If your looking for something with a bit more of a challenge try XNA which uses C#.
But then I’m a designer and C++ is something I only poke cautiously and with a stick. I’m sure some of the programmers on here will probably give you better suggestions.

[Anonymous]

You could do a lot worse than to try c# and XNA. http://creators.xna.com/, presuming you have a graphics card capable of directx9. The IDE (program for writing your programs in) is good and free. There are lots of examples to just download and tweak in code to get the joy of really making something different. You can then progress to trying to make your own project, something very very simple like displaying "hello world" in 2d on the screen. Do that and see if you are still interested in becoming a programmer.

After that you need to explore and read and read and explore. And make lots of mistakes. And not ask for help without spending plenty of time looking into problems first yourself. Read the documents and information on the sites. Learn to learn for yourself, programmers have to be very independent and resourceful to get anywhere. It’s tough, but then it soon becomes second nature.

As a language c# is fine, the XNA libraries added on top allow for much easier creation of 3d PC games at a very suitable speed. If you are really in it to become a programmer in games you’ll need to look into a slightly lower level language like c/c++, it’s the main language of games development still – and probably so for the next two console generations. The biggest difference is manual memory management and the theory of dealing with such. You could start to learn c/c++ after a year or two of getting familiar with the syntax of c#. Several sets of parallel things you should develop is algorithms, maths, hardware, compilers and then subsets of games related technologies. You will most likely come up against these things as you attempt to achieve your game goals, but it doesn’t hurt to have a few books to read that work on those areas specifically.

[Anonymous]

So its c# all the way, thanks for the replies,
should i try to learn c# on its own or with xna together.will visual c# express edition do.also is there any good beginner tutorials on the interweb?im looking into getting a book aswell.

cheers

[Anonymous]

I’d learn it with XNA. There are plenty of tutorials on the internet but if you want a book try
" Microsoft XNA Unleashed" by Chad Carter ISBN : 078-0-672-32964-7

The last time I was in Dublin they had it in stock in Hodges Figgis. It’s a bit expensive at 50 euro but I have found it a lot of help

[Anonymous]

—

[Anonymous]

So its c# all the way, thanks for the replies,
should i try to learn c# on its own or with xna together.will visual c# express edition do.also is there any good beginner tutorials on the interweb?im looking into getting a book aswell.

cheers[/quote:eccb136bfd]

Learn it with XNA, yes visual c# express will do and I’m sure there are plenty of c# tutorials on the web somewhere. There’s plenty of XNA tutorials on the link already provided. Still, first step is downloading and installing the software and trying to get an xna sample to compile. You could do it today.

[Anonymous]

quick question,
when im on the xna website there is a link to visual c# 2005 express, there is a newer version 2008, should I play it safe and stick with 2005?

p.s thanks for all the replies they are a great help.

cheers

EDIT: doesn’t matter i decided to play it safe.

[Anonymous]

john i cant believe you said DxStudio ………….lol ( actually nah i have been going back to that and flash myself just different looking at them now that i have been programming in C for a year .

so yea C/C++/C# seem to be the ones , but i guess they can be hard to get into .

xna seems to be the way to go to start now ,
and just use Visual C++ 2008 since its the latest

so yea look into picking up a good book or two , there are alot out there even the more fun ones which just give you a quick intro to game making in xna say.

[Anonymous]

hello all,
im back with more questions for you generous people,
im a complete beginner, so if one of you’s could point me in the right direction I would be very thankful. I am looking for the best language to learn to start off in programming (games). Also, if you could recommend a free software that would be great.
[/quote:39bc120f31]

I am assuming you are completely new to programming from your posts.

I wouldn’t advise teaching yourself programming by trying to write games – you should teach yourself basic programming fundamentals before going near games.
Focus on writing very simple progams to learn how programing languages work.

I’d learn it with XNA. There are plenty of tutorials on the internet but if you want a book try
" Microsoft XNA Unleashed" by Chad Carter ISBN : 078-0-672-32964-7
[/quote:39bc120f31]

You could do a lot worse than to try c# and XNA. http://creators.xna.com/, presuming you have a graphics card capable of directx9.[/quote:39bc120f31]

so yea look into picking up a good book or two , there are alot out there even the more fun ones which just give you a quick intro to game making in xna say.
[/quote:39bc120f31]

I would especially recommend against attempting to start teaching yourself coding using a high level library like XNA. You’ll get to put stuff on screen that looks like games a lot quicker, but you won’t understand much of it.

I would advise you to go looking on the internet for general advice on starting to learn programming, instead, and come back to games when you’ve got the fundamentals figured out (probably going to take at least a month or two), and want to start doing little projects.

If you’ve already got Visual Studio Express installed, then use it – go get yourself a good introduction to coding in C, and start learning language fundamentals in C – there’s good tutorials out there, but you might be on safer ground getting a good book on amazon. (As a general heuristic, avoid anything that sounds like ‘teach yourself X in Y’).

[Anonymous]

I would especially recommend against attempting to start teaching yourself coding using a high level library like XNA. You’ll get to put stuff on screen that looks like games a lot quicker, but you won’t understand much of it.
[/quote:d79291411e]

This seems like VERY sound advice from a programmer if you are certain you want to be a Programmer. If your interest is more in the design end of things, high level scripting is grand and being able to see results quite quickly helps a great deal in advancing as a designer.

You should read the articles on here about education (games degree’s versus traditional CS degrees) and see if you can narrow down the area you want to aim for if your not certain. My suggestion is to do as much research about what area of games you want to go into as early as you can and then put just as much research into finding the right course. Don’t just read the prospectus and talk to a lecturer. See if you can talk to some of the students currently on the course (preferably out of ear shot of any lecturers) and check other resources.

Courses are not always what they seem, and sometimes you’ll be told that they will offer you the chance to learn everything including plumbing the kitchen sink when it just isn’t the case. Approach it like an employer would an applicant. Check all of their details and make sure they aren’t fudging any critical areas.

I may have gone off on a tangent there, I’m not sure how far you are from sitting the LC, but it’s just a heads up for future reference.

[Anonymous]

You could do a lot worse than to try c# and XNA. http://creators.xna.com/, presuming you have a graphics card capable of directx9.[/quote:6c9737c06e]

I would especially recommend against attempting to start teaching yourself coding using a high level library like XNA. You’ll get to put stuff on screen that looks like games a lot quicker, but you won’t understand much of it.[/quote:6c9737c06e]

I hear what you are saying and I’ll admit I’ve no training in the theory of teaching so I may be badly wrong. Still, I don’t think it’s going to hurt to use XNA for three reasons. One, having it installed does not hold the OP back, it’s entirely possible to write console.out hello world programs without invoking the library. Two it’s very likely that the OP will want to fiddle with games. Three the samples and tutorials on the xna website are second to none and will run out of the box.

[Anonymous]

evbevmagevbof

Depends on what type of games you want to make.

If you aim to be making AAA titles (after a few years), then learn C++ and Object Oriented Analysis and Design.

If you want to make casual games for you and buddies to play in between HALO down-time, check out XNA/C#.

Main short-coming (or possible strength – depends on your perspective) of C#/XNA is that it manages your memory.

AAA programmers really need to know efficient memory management.

Hope this helps.
B.

[Anonymous]

Depends on what type of games you want to make.[/quote:86a8941a12]
Of course i would like to make AAA titles (eventually) my question is which is the best to start off with? Which apparently is c#.

I have started coding in visual studio express using the built in tutorials, after that I will be using XNA. Is this the way to go?

Im thinking about becomming a network programmer as there is an increasingly number of games becoming online.Any thoughts?

My Leaving Cert is next year so are CAO forms but im thinking about a general computer science degree.Now I dont want to start another argument about computer science versus game related courses but, again any thoughts?(sorry) :(

thanks to everyone on all there input.

cheers

[Anonymous]

Depends on what type of games you want to make.[/quote:b1a64a0127]

Im thinking about becomming a network programmer as there is an increasingly number of games becoming online.Any thoughts?

My Leaving Cert is next year so are CAO forms but im thinking about a general computer science degree.Now I dont want to start another argument about computer science versus game related courses but, [/quote:b1a64a0127]

No argument do computer science if you want into games ;) Its a proven!

As for programming language i’d personally recommend starting with C++ and do some simple programs to get used to it (ideally this will probably take ya 3-4 months to get good enough, then start to take alook at directx or managed directx to make things a bit simpler. Ideally, the game type should should be aiming for is something 2D and simple. i.e. tetris or pong. Then move to more complicated 3d stuff. Key is to take your time, and have a very good understanding of C++, if you dont then you’ll probably not get on very well with directx.

C# and XNA is good, but unfortunately its not used in the industry for games. C# is mostly used though by us for tools\exporters etc. But XNA isn’t. But it is good to prototype things fast, or to mess about\learn about shaders etc.

Network programming is a good number these days, pretty much every team or studio is on the look out for a network programmer. Ask most agencies and they’ll tell ya they are pretty hard to comeby and heavily sought after, and online is only going to get bigger ;)

[Anonymous]

This seems like VERY sound advice from a programmer if you are certain you want to be a Programmer. If your interest is more in the design end of things, high level scripting is grand and being able to see results quite quickly helps a great deal in advancing as a designer. [/quote:5992a4f88d]
Yep, that’s a very good point – I was assuming the OP was wanting to be a programmer – I agree with you that a designer would probably be better off staying at a high level.

I hear what you are saying and I’ll admit I’ve no training in the theory of teaching so I may be badly wrong. [/quote:5992a4f88d]
I’m in the same boat, no training in this area… I thought a game programming/design course of my own making to a few 10 year old kids at one stage, and I’ve helped teach a few other people to program, but that’s about it…
I would say though, that a lot of uni degrees do start people off at a low level, and work up to higher APIs, and they’ve thought about their curriculum.
Also, that this does seem to make a lot of sense to me, as in coding, it’s very useful to know the basics before you can work with the higher abstractions.

Of course i would like to make AAA titles (eventually) my question is which is the best to start off with? Which apparently is c#. [/quote:5992a4f88d]

You are early in your career – you’ve got plenty of time to build a good strong base of fundamentals before heading for the more advanced stuff.
I would suggest your priorities at the moment maybe should be:
1) Doing some programming, of any sort, to make sure you like it – I love coding, but it’s clear it’s just not for some people, and it’s important to get coding something, anything, and establish whether you like the practice of programming.

2) Learning some programming fundamentals that will stand to you later in your learning process.
This would mean learning the basics of how a a procedural language works… you could do a lot worse than starting off with just plain C – it’s a small language, easy enough to learn, no object-oriented programming concepts – which means it’s a smaller set of things to get your head around – and it’s got pointers in it, so you can learn how to work with pointers early, which is a very nice fundamental to get familiar with. Later, when you start college, you can learn about OOP and big architectures etc.

On the other hand, it takes ages to do anything in it, and if keeping yourself motivated is an issue, you might be better off with something higher level like C#

I have started coding in visual studio express using the built in tutorials, after that I will be using XNA. Is this the way to go? [/quote:5992a4f88d]

As I mentioned, XNA is a high level API – that’s a great thing to work with when you want to code big applications quickly, but it can be less good when you are trying to learn how a language works, because it’s hiding more stuff from you (because it’s so high level) and so you know with less certainty why things are working the way they are.
That said, like anything, there’s arguments both ways…
Maybe start off for a month or two writing basic, text based, programs in C or C# (which are two very different languages). Get a good introductory programming text book, and do the exercises it prescribes. After that, after a few months, when you have a feel for basic programming, think about whether you want to go and use a high level lib like XNA.

Im thinking about becomming a network programmer as there is an increasingly number of games becoming online.Any thoughts?
[/quote:5992a4f88d]
That’s probably a bit specific of a goal at this stage – not that it hurts to think specifically – but a lot of people would just think ‘I want to be a programmer’ and if writing netcode appeals to them, and there’s good jobs around, would specialise more as they went through 3rd level.
There are an increasing number of games going on-line -however there’s also an increasing number of games companies using networking middleware, so perhaps companies are writing less netcode internally, and there may even be less jobs in this area – I’m really not sure…
If you did want to be a network programmer, you’d have to know lots about low level stuff like you’d learn by programming C. (although I’m not saying that all netcode these days is written in C).

But anyway, you won’t be looking for a job for at least 5 years from the sounds of things, so it’s very early to speculate on what the job demand, coding environment, everything, will be like for the PS4 etc era at this stage.

Now I dont want to start another argument about computer science versus game related courses but, again any thoughts?(sorry) Sad [/quote:5992a4f88d]
Read the previous threads for a wide spectrum of opinion. In my opinion, if you want to be the best programmer you can, and/or if you want to work on low level technical stuff like netcode, do the best CS degree you can get into. You can learn the games relevant parts of CS on your way through, in your spare time, or as you do options, or do a masters.

[Anonymous]

http://seriousgames.ie/mediawiki-1.6.10/index.php/Courses

[Anonymous]

hello all,
im back with more questions for you generous people,
im a complete beginner, so if one of you’s could point me in the right direction I would be very thankful. I am looking for the best language to learn to start off in programming (games). Also, if you could recommend a free software that would be great.

cheers[/quote:eefd037b60]

…actually if someone were new to programming and game programming, I’d be very inclined to start a little higher level than C++, or even XNA.

I’d recommend taking a look at the integrated game development systems, and a good choice would be PyGame (Python scripting + SDL), or another popular language for experimentation would be Processing.

http://www.pygame.org/wiki/about
http://processing.org/

Both of these allow you to get to grips with high level language constructs and building simple interactive applications in 2D. Once you have your head around those then I’d start to drill down into 3D or XNA etc.

Steve

[Author]

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