- This topic has 14 replies, 5 voices, and was last updated 13 years, 5 months ago by Anonymous.
June 10, 2007 at 10:57 am #6064AnonymousInactive
The Church of England is threatening legal action against Sony after it used Manchester Cathedral as the backdrop to a violent computer game.
"For a global manufacturer to re-create one of our great Cathedrals with photo-realistic quality and then encourage people to have guns battles in the building is beyond belief and highly irresponsible" – the Rt Rev Nigel McCulloch[/quote:ba201c2a0a]
June 11, 2007 at 10:02 am #37163AnonymousInactive
So there will be hell , err I mean heaven to pay.
Sole the joke from another site but yeah interesting case, game is of course fantasy but film makers require permission to shoot locations in fiction and Sony knows a thing or two about films as well as games and does seem to have thrown religious sensitivity out the window on this one.
As a global company it had to be aware that an increasingly media savy church was likely to object to the use of an identifiable cathedral in a fps game. Oh and Sony saying that video of gameplay shown on news was user generated content does not cut it either. I doubt there is a way to complete that section of the game without opening a can of woop ass.
Would not like the game to be withdrawn or reworked as it sounded like that part of the game was a big scene so Sony will just have to pay up.
Then again don’t want PCness taken too far – could countries object to nuclear missile sites being placed on their virtual sovereign soil in a game like defcon?. At every opportunity I have covered out neutral (tactically significant ) little country with silos. :)
June 11, 2007 at 10:28 am #37167AnonymousInactive
In fairness, Eidos got kicked in the teeth with this with Hitman a few years back using a Far/Middle East Temple. They had to remove it from the game. Sony have screwed up here. They’re saying they got the rights to use it and the CoE are saying they were never asked. Which ever one isn’t telling the truth is getting screwed. If its Sony, well, they’re on an ever downward slope at the moment…
June 11, 2007 at 10:39 am #37168AnonymousInactive
Way to cite precedent Omen. :)
Got details on Hitman2 from wiki.
"The game’s release sparked controversy due to a level featuring the killing of Sikhs within a depiction of their most holy site, the Harimandir Sahib. Eidos claimed that the enemies in the level were not Sikh, but simply guards, and that the "temple" was in fact a hospital. However, this is contradicted by a depiction in the game itself, which refers to the site as a gurdwara, or Sikh temple. An altered version of Silent Assassin was eventually released on the GameCube and Windows platforms with the offending material removed from the game."
June 11, 2007 at 1:45 pm #37173AnonymousInactive
"For a global manufacturer to re-create one of our great Cathedrals with photo-realistic quality and then encourage people to have guns battles in the building is beyond belief and highly irresponsible"
I mean no offense to anyone of faith when I say this but, considering the blood soaked history of many religious faiths perhaps they should climb down off that high horse… and perhaps they should be more concerned about matters of real importance in the world. Is it not more likely that it is ingrained social problems in Manchester that have caused its gun crime rather than say a game that has been available for less that 3 months.
I can appreciate a legal position of "we were not asked for permission" but trying to take the PC moral high ground just plain annoys me.
June 11, 2007 at 2:33 pm #37174AnonymousInactive
If other faith’s can defend themselves against gratuitous use of symbols of their faith without their permission, then why can’t the CoE?
And to strengthen their case
It is not just the use of holy ground for the bloodthirsty game which has upset the clergy; it is the fact that Manchester has been so scarred by gun violence in recent years.
In fact, the cathedral has hosted memorial services for some of the victims. This is why the computer game has been branded "sick" by the Church. [/quote:5f1a2f5e15]
And no, I’m not a religious zealot, just a devil’s adovcate.
June 11, 2007 at 3:29 pm #37175AnonymousInactive
But trying to take the PC moral high ground just plain annoys me.[/quote:f517451d00]
Let he who is without sin cast the first stone a. Ironic.
The legal issue is the most interesting to me. How much legal control as apposed to moral indignation is suitable for the church to have over these issues? A lot of people would liken the church to a corporation, so is the bible and all religious iconography their IP or is it public domain?. I get that I am over simplifying a sensitive issue but they do try and defend against certain uses as though it was IP, the Exorcist and The Passion were endorsed but Da Vinci code & End of Days is blasphemous (same as derivative / unauthorized work in an IP context I suppose). Would I need dispensation to make say a biblically accurate religious game? I have no inclination to do so just wondering (except if it were like the golden PSP episode in south park someone should make that game).
June 11, 2007 at 3:40 pm #37176AnonymousInactive
My question would be, what exactly is their point?
A. the use of a famous religious building in a violent computer game because it is offensive to their fate?
B. the use of an iconic Manchester building in a violent computer game and how it somehow relates to Manchester recent history of gun crime?
If it is A then numerous games are guilty of the same crime of having a church/cathedral as a setting in a level (although maybe not a real or famous church/cathedral)
If it is B then numerous games are guilty of having a level or setting in a city or area which has a strong history in gun violence (New York as an example)
June 11, 2007 at 4:35 pm #37177AnonymousInactive
You do realise that no arguement makes any sense as soon as you bring the term ‘religion’ into it…
June 11, 2007 at 4:40 pm #37179AnonymousInactive
indeed, but thats another post for another forum
June 12, 2007 at 6:03 pm #37207AnonymousInactive
As far as I know copyright on a building only exists for seventy years after an architect’s death, so maybe sony don’t need permission to use the cathedral.
"If other faith’s can defend themselves against gratuitous use of symbols of their faith without their permission, then why can’t the CoE?"
Of course they have the right to defend themselves. It just annoys me me that such a big deal is made of it, as I’m sure the church has much more important things to be doing than worrying about a computer game.
June 12, 2007 at 8:08 pm #37211AnonymousInactive
The Manchester cathedral certainly looks beautiful and I’m sure it has a great history. I don’t think that any game will take away from that. While I’d personally rather not see it shot to pieces, I can simply choose to avoid it. I’d suggest that the Church of England do the same.
Of course some will say that it is offensive. It is only offensive to their faith if they chose to let it. You can get worked up over just about anything in the world. Have some maturity in deciding what you’ll allow to anger you.
As for Manchester gun crime, I don’t think a game like Resistance is going to inspire a generation of inner city youth to go out and act any worse than they already would. Tackle the causes, not just the effects.
June 13, 2007 at 11:42 am #37222AnonymousInactive
A Labour backbencher just brought this up at Prime Minister’s Questions – surprisingly it wasn’t Keith Vaz! Tony Lloyd feigned little interest in accusing Sony of being a big bad corporation. Being the Member for Manchester Central, I’m pretty confident the CoE put him up to it. Blair didn’t take the bait. He shrugged it off saying Sony should be aware of their social responsibility.
June 13, 2007 at 12:26 pm #37226AnonymousInactive
here’s a little funny
June 14, 2007 at 11:06 am #37245AnonymousInactive
Interesting article about this sony/Church of England debate, It has an interesting view on the incident and raises some valid concerns for the future…
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