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 This topic has 18 replies, 9 voices, and was last updated 14 years, 10 months ago by Anonymous.

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December 29, 2007 at 6:38 am #6450AnonymousInactive
Hey… quick (or long winded most likely) question about maths in games courses. I’m currently doing a degree course in computing which has about 4 hours of maths p/w in it. I’m wanting to do further studies, hopefully on a games course – when I finish.
The problem is… I don’t have much knowledge of maths. I’m managing ok on the course I’m doing, but having to do a lot of catch up work (was living abroad, which messed up my education – never sat the leaving cert, got into college by other means etc. etc.).
I’m trying to decide…
Should I avoid courses with maths in them?
Should I maybe take a maths course before applying to a games dev course (if so, what kind of maths course? Know of anything?) and catch up with what I need first? Do you think it’s worth trying this?Just how much maths should you expect on these courses? Don’t get me wrong, I’m not trying to avoid maths… I am really interested in it. The maths module on the course I’m in now is one of my favourites. I just don’t really know how much catching up I need to do.
Suggestions?

December 29, 2007 at 9:44 am #39752AnonymousInactive
You need to know at least the basics of 3D maths and some basic physics.
Have a look at the contents page of Mathematics For Game Developers (or any book on a similar topic) to see the topics you should be covering.
http://books.google.ie/books?id=lTUUswhVqqkC&dq=maths+for+game+programmer

December 29, 2007 at 11:49 am #39754AnonymousInactive
if you feel you need to brush up on your maths you should think about one of the online courses in maths or physics on gamesinstitute.com . i took one of those courses(physics) one in my own time to see what it was like, and found it really good. Although like all online courses you have to put in the work and complete the assignments etc. but you’ll definitely be improved by the end and more than capable of maths for games.

December 29, 2007 at 11:52 pm #39755AnonymousInactive
Wow thanks, really helpful replies. :)

December 30, 2007 at 1:07 am #39756AnonymousInactive
It’s a reality that as computing power increases the complexity of the maths used in games increases as well, not because maths has suddenly become harder, but because more involved algorithms are now possible in realtime and offline for games.
Learn as much maths as you can possibly fit in. Look towards the engineering degree maths books and books on introductory linear algebra to get a good grounding for the maths needed in games.
A good, nontheoretical, step by step maths book that I’m currently using:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/EngineeringMathematics5thProgrammesProblems/dp/0333919394/ref=cm_lmf_tit_20_rsrssi0 
December 30, 2007 at 2:31 am #39757AnonymousInactive
Yeh doing a lots of maths before a game course is good. I am doing maths and computing so that will ready me for a games course i want to do in IT carlow next year. Maths aint that scary am not good at maths but i am willing to work hard at it.

December 30, 2007 at 12:07 pm #39758AnonymousInactive
A good, nontheoretical, step by step maths book that I’m currently using:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/EngineeringMathematics5thProgrammesProblems/dp/0333919394/ref=cm_lmf_tit_20_rsrssi0%5B/quote:8e5a6ebd17%5Ddefinafely sounds like useful reading for a good grounding in maths. seems to cover the material in a good manner. probably started out as course notes. always the best Way to write a book.years of feedback

December 30, 2007 at 2:19 pm #39759AnonymousInactive
Metar
The more mathematics you can get under your belt, the stronger your programming will become.
Best advice is to grab a book on the following:
Analytical Geometry
Trigonometry
Calculus
Vectors
Matrices
QuaternionThat should give you enough knowledge to take on most postgrad game programming courses.
Books I would recommend:
Good all round:
http://www.amazon.com/MathematicsPhysicsProgrammersGameDevelopment/dp/1584503300/ref=pd_bbs_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1199023891&sr=81Really comprehensive, great coverage on splines and curves:
http://www.amazon.com/EssentialMathematicsGamesInteractiveApplications/dp/155860863X/ref=pd_bbs_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1199023891&sr=82Good overview, and some material on collision detection and response:
http://www.amazon.com/PrimerGraphicsDevelopmentWordwareLibrary/dp/1556229119/ref=pd_bbs_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1199023891&sr=83Best overall (in my opinion):
http://www.amazon.com/MathematicsProgrammingComputerGraphicsDevelopment/dp/1584500379/ref=sr_1_10?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1199024170&sr=110Lastly, I would recommend whatever textbook you pick up, to check the author’s website for errata. Almost all of the above books get the dot or cross product wrong.
And as Peter_B stated, GameInstitute offers a course in Game Mathematics, which covers most of this material (although mostly in theory, no practical source code applications to work through.)
Hope this helps,
B. 
December 30, 2007 at 6:10 pm #39760AnonymousInactive
This is why i want to be a game artist lol

December 30, 2007 at 9:09 pm #39763AnonymousInactive
This is why i want to be a game artist lol[/quote:72953a49f2]
i would love that but where do u start and what are ur chaces getting a job and thats why i am stayimg away. i still do some graphics designs in my spare time :) 
December 31, 2007 at 6:51 am #39764AnonymousInactive
Wow thanks… all of your replies have been very helpful. Probably be checking out those books soon and eventually buying one (to start off with). Those courses online looked quite good too.
Anyway I had another question… I know you have a list of courses on this site… related to games dev. But I’m wondering if anyone knows of any related to like, visualisation/graphics … which wouldn’t necessarily be games specific? Specifically graduate courses… seems like we have hardly any options over here and England has all the good stuff.
Oooh yeah and is there anyone on this forum doing the Trinity course? Have there been any posts about it? I’d be curious what people are saying about it (people doing it).
Thanks a lot for all the replies – you’ve been very helpful.

December 31, 2007 at 2:15 pm #39765AnonymousInactive
Metar,
Heard great things about the LYIT graduate course:
http://www.lyit.ie/courses/computing/MS_Computer_Games_LY_KGAME_M.htmlRegards,
B. 
December 31, 2007 at 2:56 pm #39766AnonymousInactive
Metar,
Heard great things about the LYIT graduate course:
http://www.lyit.ie/courses/computing/MS_Computer_Games_LY_KGAME_M.htmlRegards,
B.[/quote:2b4a11da05]Again though, has this course been developed in association with any games companies? Because after all we’ll be the ones hiring them. If it hasn’t then it might be hard to get into a company after.

December 31, 2007 at 7:20 pm #39767AnonymousInactive
Peter_B
What are your thoughts on the IGDA curriculum framework?
http://www.igda.org/academia/curriculum_framework.php
Do you feel it meets what your team needs?
B.
(Perhaps we should move this to a new thread, as to not hijack the maths thread?)

December 31, 2007 at 10:18 pm #39768AnonymousInactive
Happy new year to all. Glad to see someone that wants to get into games course also recognises the importance of maths. I’m currently working with some maths teachers on ways to ‘make maths fun’ i.e. give people some incentive during maths class. For a kick off we’re looking at trigonometry and its application in areas such as games, other areas may be added later. I’ll report back on progress in the coming weeks (if I survive one of the classes, my hearth goes out to second level teachers as I think most of their time is spent on crowd control). The current senior cycle maths curriculum covers concepts that should be further advanced during a games programming course.
Its also nice to see a well structured post as we don’t see too many games manuals or instructions written in cryptic misspelled text.
Best of luck on working towards getting into your chosen course.

January 4, 2008 at 12:12 pm #39782AnonymousInactive
Again, thanks for all the replies. :]
Greenbean – I bought the maths book you recommended (The engineering one) – it looked really good and clear and had good reviews on amazon.
I think I’ll be looking into a course for over summer. Will give me more motivation.
I’ve seen the Letterkenny course but yeah I haven’t heard anything about it really. Anyone else know much?

January 4, 2008 at 3:51 pm #39786AnonymousInactive
Feel free to take a look at my course notes:
They cover most of the maths (vectors, geometry, quaternions, matrices etc)
http://www.comp.dit.ie/bduggan/Courses/Game%20Worlds/index.html
http://www.comp.dit.ie/bduggan/Courses/Game%20Middleware/index.html
There are quite a few example programs to download also
Bryan

January 4, 2008 at 10:29 pm #39788AnonymousInactive
Hi Bryan,
That’s some great material you have up on your site.
Reading through the ODE material right now, looks great.Regards,
B. 
January 6, 2008 at 12:23 pm #39793AnonymousInactive
You’ve probably see this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LgZOLrFFLQ
At some point, I’ll get the class to put all their code online also
Bryan


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